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Nov 28, 2019, 10:44 PM
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckleanth
I just wanted to understand the way x24 work and how matched channel output is managed by the device. If you change the output of the slave channel to be the same as the master - what happens with the matched output data. Is that erased? If i put the slave back to off does the matching information come back or do i need to do the match sequence again?
Yes. If you make ANY changes to the output port for the slave servo, you have to rematch that group.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ckleanth
I
I on purpose changed the slave to have same input as master because i wanted to test what the difference is if same pulse is coming from the channel and try figure out where the binding comes from. I understand about the difference between inboard and outboard linkage and have the correct mechanical linkage setup taking into account the wing thickness and connect at the appropriate position on the control horns so in "theory" matching is not necessary - so i thought driving the servo with the same rotation would show me where the binding happens.
To prevent from having to re-match it again you should just unplug the servos and plug them in individually to test this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ckleanth
I
With this process, i then disconnect a2, plug back a1 go to match menu and start matching. Move a1 to ends using the sticks, press x24 button to go to centre plug back a2 and start matching.
No, this is your problem! After setting the center/end points for the master (A1) and then the slave (A2), plug both servos back into their ports and THEN start the match. You do not match the servos individually! They have to be matched together - that is what matching does! You match only ONE time per group.
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Nov 29, 2019, 08:09 PM
If it has wings it will fly...
ckleanth's Avatar
Jim, I am confused with the device. I think I understand how it works but for some reason I cannot get it to match the left aileron on my plane.

To illustrate I "matched manually" two channels using the X24. I used A1 and A2 output ch2, used A1 as master and adjusted endpoints on A2 to suit the master so there would be no binding - and to prove to me that the linkage mechanism and servo work fine. This video below show this setup.

X24 left wing matching issue 30/11/19 part1 (1 min 49 sec)


In the following video I used the X24 servo matching. I decided to use A1 as master and A3 as slave.
Now in the output screen I left A1 as previous setup, went into A3 and adjusted centre - leaving endpoints at 100%

went into the machine menu and started the matching. the rest is in the video...
X24 left wing matching issue 30/11/19 part2 (3 min 51 sec)


X24 left wing matching issue 30/11/19 part3 (1 min 38 sec)


if you can understand whats wrong please do let me know. I'm at a loss and at the moment I'm leaving the left wing on A1 and A2, the manual adjustment/matching I did.
Nov 29, 2019, 08:11 PM
If it has wings it will fly...
ckleanth's Avatar
happy thanksgiving to the US guys
Nov 30, 2019, 12:07 AM
Thread OP
Make sure that the FIRST thing you do is go into the OUTPUT PORTS menu and set the port you want to use for your SLAVE servo to OFF. So, if you are going to use A1 and A2 for the master/slave, A2 must be set to OFF *before* you setup the AutoMatch.

As shown on page 36 of the manual, when using servos that have a failsafe (like Hitec):

When you enter the AutoMatchTM mode all servos MUST be
unplugged.

After selecting the Setup Master option, plug in just the master
servo, make all of your adjustments, unplug the master servo, and
then exit the Setup Master option.

After selecting the Setup Slave, plug in just the slave servo, make all
of your adjustments, unplug the slave servo, and then exit the Setup
Slave option.

After selecting Start AutoMatch, plug in just the master servo, and
setup the end points. Setup the master's center position by not
moving the sticks. At this point, plug in the slave servo, and press
the ENTER button to actually start the AutoMatchTM process.
Nov 30, 2019, 04:48 AM
If it has wings it will fly...
ckleanth's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDrew
Make sure that the FIRST thing you do is go into the OUTPUT PORTS menu and set the port you want to use for your SLAVE servo to OFF. So, if you are going to use A1 and A2 for the master/slave, A2 must be set to OFF *before* you setup the AutoMatch.

As shown on page 36 of the manual, when using servos that have a failsafe (like Hitec):

When you enter the AutoMatchTM mode all servos MUST be
unplugged.

After selecting the Setup Master option, plug in just the master
servo, make all of your adjustments, unplug the master servo, and
then exit the Setup Master option.

After selecting the Setup Slave, plug in just the slave servo, make all
of your adjustments, unplug the slave servo, and then exit the Setup
Slave option.

After selecting Start AutoMatch, plug in just the master servo, and
setup the end points. Setup the master's center position by not
moving the sticks. At this point, plug in the slave servo, and press
the ENTER button to actually start the AutoMatchTM process.
Hi Jim,
The x24 automated match in the in the videos i post yesterday i use A1 and A3
In the A3 output port the input is set to off.

Once you enter the match menu if the slave servo is set to not active (N) before start the auto match process it doesn't go into the match it spits me out to the previous screen. So i have to set the slave to Y as active.

I will try again and before I enter the automatch mode i will unplug all servo. I always had the master plugged and just unplugged the slave.

Hopefully this was the issue - will confirm tonight.
Nov 30, 2019, 06:42 PM
If it has wings it will fly...
ckleanth's Avatar
Nope.. did exactly as instructions. Dont. work

X24 left wing matching saga 31/12/19 part 1 (2 min 13 sec)


X24 left wing matching saga 31/12/19 part 2 (3 min 58 sec)
Last edited by ckleanth; Dec 01, 2019 at 05:53 AM.
Dec 01, 2019, 07:22 PM
Thread OP
You are doing the setup correctly now. It looks like everything works fine until it gets to the very end of the throw then the current gets too high. Go to the SYSTEM MENU, select MENU LIMITS, and change the Auto Retries to 5. Try that using the same process you showed in the videos.

Considering that all of your other surfaces match fine, I would almost have to believe that this is a servo issue of some kind. Maybe a dirty pot, or one that is rotating inside of the servo (which changes the output position a little bit every time it is told to move).
Dec 01, 2019, 08:07 PM
If it has wings it will fly...
ckleanth's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDrew
You are doing the setup correctly now. It looks like everything works fine until it gets to the very end of the throw then the current gets too high. Go to the SYSTEM MENU, select MENU LIMITS, and change the Auto Retries to 5. Try that using the same process you showed in the videos.

Considering that all of your other surfaces match fine, I would almost have to believe that this is a servo issue of some kind. Maybe a dirty pot, or one that is rotating inside of the servo (which changes the output position a little bit every time it is told to move).
Will change that setting and see if it helps.
Dec 02, 2019, 12:45 AM
Thread OP
That setting re-checks the current when it an abnormal current occurs. If the current gets worse, especially in areas it didn't originally (like the beginning) then you could try setting it to 1 and trying that to see if it goes through without issues. If so, then I would have to believe it is a servo issue of some kind. Whatever issue is going on seems to be towards the very end of the throw. The beginning of that up until 20% or so looks perfectly normal. This is why I thought originally that maybe the servo has a bad or dirty pot.
Dec 03, 2019, 05:34 PM
If it has wings it will fly...
ckleanth's Avatar
Right... lets see if i can explain.
A1 is the inward servo (close to the fuse)
A3 outwards servo (close to the wingtip)
With the above configuration and the process described above for the hitec servos:
Changed auto reties to 5 - current was too high while servo were pulling so stopped the matching

Changed auto reties to 1 - current was too high while servo were pulling (same ish location)so stopped the matching

Changed auto reties to 5 swapped servo between them. so now A1 is near the tip and the A3 near the core. Matched with max current 0.52A when move the surfaces to the ends( i switched off the device and put it
in the current sensing menu)

I put servo back how they were originally ( A1 near the core, A2 tip) and tested the manual match i did using A1 and A2. A2 uses same input channel as A1 but I matched the A2 end limits on the x24 to whenever it needs to be to match its position with A1 servo. Max current with this setup when moved to ends is 0.5A. i did this to test the servo whether they work - gave it a few minutes of movement and it works fine..

You still rekon its something wrong with one of my servo?
Dec 03, 2019, 06:12 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckleanth

You still rekon its something wrong with one of my servo?
One can speculate all you want but wouldn’t it be easiest just to try another servo(s) and eliminate or confirm that as the issue ???
Dec 04, 2019, 11:37 AM
If it has wings it will fly...
ckleanth's Avatar
I have had savox (especially 1270tg ) gone bad and some other brands but never ever before had a hitec HS-7955TG fail me. The issue is I'm very meticulous about how i set my planes and generally test my equipment before i use them (case with the x24 i owned one for a year but only now i managed to find time to make use of ) so i generally want to understand exactly how it works and test its limitations - if any - before i fly it. I was happy with the x10+ so it would be a natural progression to xps products (although i do want one product that offers battery protection if it fails albeit i know Jim would never develop because he likes lifepo4 batteries)

So this model had servos matched using a pb unit before (and was working). I have also manually matched the two servo with the x24 and it works. So justification for getting rid two servo at a cost of £80 each is something i would consider if they showed evidence of damage or wear. Unfortunately i don't have the option to send them to local hitec dealer in the uk because the labor costs and either gear/pcb replacement are adding more or less to the cost of new servo.

And because this issue is repetitive and happens during the matching at a certain location i am unsure if this is a result of the geometry and programming how the matching sequence occur and maybe some wear or dirt the servo may have that all contribute to matching sequence to fail - especially if i managed to get the servo matched manually i honestly don't think its a bad servo, maybe not brand new but most definitely not a damaged servo.

So is there an option in the x24 to extend the movement of the slave servo, so if matching is seeking a position for master lets say at 1300 miliseconds, there must be a method Jim has implemented to seek the appropriate slave position to achieve the lowest current. So is the range adjustable - for example 1300 us + (master and slave center shift) + (x up to xn)

Where xn is the maximum amount of pulse the algorithm will move the slave servo to achieve the lowest current

So is there a method to adjust this range? Because i think in my case the trial position the algorithm uses is software limited or for some reason it moves the servo the wrong direction
Dec 05, 2019, 02:15 AM
Registered User
mikestark's Avatar
I think what Juan is saying is - take the Slave servo out the other wing which successfully matched. Try the matching. If the problem still occurs it is not the servo and something else.

It's going to cost you nothing (at this stage) other than time to swap things around to identify the source of the problem. Change leads, ports etc, but only one thing at a time.

I have spent my life writing software and therefore debugging sometimes confusing problems, and the only way to be sure is to change one thing at a time until you find the source of the problem.
Dec 05, 2019, 08:12 AM
If it has wings it will fly...
ckleanth's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikestark
I think what Juan is saying is - take the Slave servo out the other wing which successfully matched. Try the matching. If the problem still occurs it is not the servo and something else.

It's going to cost you nothing (at this stage) other than time to swap things around to identify the source of the problem. Change leads, ports etc, but only one thing at a time.

I have spent my life writing software and therefore debugging sometimes confusing problems, and the only way to be sure is to change one thing at a time until you find the source of the problem.
yea I see where you are coming from.

on an unrelated side note, the company I work for (landing gear manufacturer) may have a temp placement for an engineer at ethiopian airlines - to improve customer relation and faster problem solving...

is model flying there restricted in any way? I couldn't find any information on the net.
Dec 05, 2019, 12:26 PM
Thread OP
Since you are getting the same issue with either 1 or 5 for the retries, and it seems to be in the same location, I would really have to believe that this is a servo issue.

The AutoMatch works by moving the master servo in preset increments, and then moving the slave servo back and forth in 1us increments, locating the position that requires the least amount of current. That position is stored in a table. If the pot is dirty on the slave servo, or it rotates inside of the holder, this can throw off the position. The current can only be affected by the amount of force required to physically move the surface and the servos themselves. Unless you have some serious issue with the surface moving in the same spot, I would say this has to be a servo problem, especially since the X24 is able to match your other surfaces without any issues and there is only one code routine that does the matching.
Last edited by JimDrew; Dec 06, 2019 at 12:22 PM.


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