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Sep 13, 2017, 12:07 AM
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Beemans2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Fiz
Mine was perfect, but you measured it with an empty tank, as you fly it with fuel in it maybe measure it with fuel in it. Also the best test for tail/nose heavy is at half to two thirds throttle set the plane in a 45 degree climb and then roll inverted. It should slowly nose back down to planet earth, if it starts to nose towards the moon then "Houston we have a problem" - its tail heavy
If I set the CG on the supplied mark with fuel, it would be even more tail heavy. In the inverted 45 test it heads for the moon. I am just disappointed that the mark is so far off given the I went to the trouble of mounting the rudder servo in back to get the CG to the mark. I modified a similar model on FlightSIM and created the feel and tracking that I have on my 26%er and than moved the CG until it balanced. I needed about 0.4 to 0.5 inches to balance. I will move the batteries way forward and give that a try.
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Sep 13, 2017, 12:28 PM
Fully Sending It
Xpress..'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemans2
I finished up the build on my 26%er and did the maiden. I have a DLE35RA and used a rear mounted rudder servo. I set the CG dead on the CG mark without fuel (the plane is level hanging from pins inside the fuse which should be very accurate). When I fly the plane it is obviously tail heavy. It required quite a few clicks of down trim for level flight then it will climb when inverted. The fuel tank is in the normal position just in front of the main spar. Am I missing something? Everyone seems to be saying this plane is nose heavy at the marked CG point yet I find the opposite.
I'd be checking thrust alignments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Fiz
Mine was perfect, but you measured it with an empty tank, as you fly it with fuel in it maybe measure it with fuel in it. Also the best test for tail/nose heavy is at half to two thirds throttle set the plane in a 45 degree climb and then roll inverted. It should slowly nose back down to planet earth, if it starts to nose towards the moon then "Houston we have a problem" - its tail heavy
You never measure CG with fuel in the aircraft.
Sep 21, 2017, 11:23 AM
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Beemans2's Avatar
[QUOTE=Xpress..;38275633]I'd be checking thrust alignments.

It does the same thing whether under power or at idle so it's the CG.
Sep 23, 2017, 02:18 PM
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Beemans2's Avatar

Pilot RC 26% Hamilton Edge 540 build


Here is the build summary for my Pilot RC 26% Hamilton Edge 540.

Key conclusions:
Overall good quality.
Do not use tape on any of the watch decals.
The CG mark is about .5 to .6 inches too far back.
The DA35 does not fit completely under the cowl and needs additional holes for cooling anyway.
The DLE35 supplied muffler does not fit without cutting some the engine box. I used a B & B instead.
Engine cooling would be easier with a two cylinder opposed engine.
All the servo extensions in the Chief Aircraft Servo package are way too long.
You cannot mount the gas and smoke tanks side by side because they interfere with access to the wing bolts.
It could use better tail wheel control (compression spring style for example).
The black color needs protection for the sun to keep from wrinkling.

Materials:
Pilot RC 26% Hamilton Edge 540
DLE-35-RA Engine
B & B Specialties DLE 35 RA Smoke Muffler - Inverted
Xoar 19/8 Beachwood Propeller
Futaba R7008SB S.Bus2 FASSTest Receiver
SBS-01V External Voltage Sensor
SBS-01T Thermal Sensor
Futaba External Voltage Input Cable
Futaba 2x hub
2 LiFe Receiver Batteries, 2200mAh 2S
Smart-Fly SuperReg
Tech Aero IBEC (ignition battery eliminator)
CORTEX 3-Axis Aircraft Gyro
PowerBox Smokepump
2 Heavy Duty 18 AWG SuperSwitchs
external power switch

5 MKS DS1220 Digital High-Torque Servos
1 Hitec HS-5665MH Digital HV High-Speed Servo
1 1" Hangar 9 Aluminum Hitec Servo Arm
4 1.5" Hangar 9 Aluminum Futaba Servo Arms
1 1.5" Aluminum Futaba Servo Arm for rudder
3 6" Heavy-Duty 22AWG Servo Extensions
2 18" Heavy-Duty 22AWG Servo Extensions
1 24" Heavy-Duty 22AWG Servo Extensions
Safety clips

14 oz Durbo Fuel tank
14 oz Durbo Fuel tank for smoke
2 Sullivan Aluminum HD Stopper Kits
1/8" Fuel Line Barbs
Hayes Med Fuel line for fuel tank
ProFlex Universal Fuel Tubing, 3/32" ID for smoke tank
Tygon 3/32" Gas Fuel Tubing Fuel tubing
2 Pilot Fuel Dots
2 Fuel tees
1 smoke line tee
2 Fuel Tank Vents, by Pilot RC
Radiant heat reflector tape
misc balsa and aircraft plywood

The Build:
I found the quality of the aircraft to be very good but the documentation to be lacking. I needed to use some of the Pilot RC general 30CC instructions and some of the 50CC instructions and a bit of guesswork. I did need to cut off a tiny amount of the main spar to get the wings to fit tightly and the spinner bolt was bent.

I did a rough build to decide whether the rudder servo in the tail or use the pull-pull system with the servo forward. To hit the spec CG I needed to use a rear rudder servo (needs one extra 1 1/2" servo arm) and keep the batteries to the back of the cockpit area where the rudder servo for a pull-pull system would have been.

Thanks to many web comments, I mounted the rudder without using tape in the gluing process to protect the watch decals. I used and over/under approach to the gas and smoke tanks (precludes the use of canisters). I use extra plywood reinforcement for the rudder and elevator servos. I used blind nuts for the tail wheel assembly. I used two batteries and a Smart-Fly SuperReg with and IBEC and a smoke pump directly connected to the receiver. I added a gyro so I programmed the Futaba receiver to mode 4 and used the Sbus to connect to the gyro.

There was quite a bit of gap between the cowl and the spinner so I added a bit of spacing to the top of the cowl mount. This mostly preserved the alignment of the graphics while giving a better alignment and reduced the gap. The engine would touch the cowl so I cut small holes in the cowl but after extensive testing I found I needed more cooling holes. I tried ducting and a bunch of options but the engine would heat up after dropping back to idle after a full throttle rev especially on the ground. I noticed a lack of power when the engine temperature got above 210 degrees F as measured by a thermocouple mounted on the engine cylinder just above the exhaust port. I also found that the engine was hard to restart after being run.

I ended up with extra holes in cowl and two large ports out the bottom to get enough airflow. The DLE rear exhaust puts the muffler just below the carburetors so the heat can cause vapor lock. I added a plate with radiant heat reflector tape between the muffler and the carburetor.

Flight Test:

The first flight went well but I needed a lot of down elevator. In subsequent flights I found the bird was tail heavy. So much so that it climbed quite a bit when hands off inverted when trimmed for level normal flight. I have a version of an EDGE 540 on RealFlight that matches the size of my real one and adjusted the CG to have the match the characteristics I found on my first flight. Then I moved the simulator CG until I got the desired characteristics (hands off level flight inverted or upright). This was about 0.6 inches forward or more nose-heavy. From the weight of the plane and the weight of the batteries I calculated I needed to move the batteries about 13 inches forward. I moved the batteries in front of the fuel tank (and moved the smoke pump). I flew the reconfigured plane and the balance was perfect. It seems to have plenty of power and the control surfaces are more than enough. I have not tested or tuned the gyro yet. This should be a fun airplane.
Sep 24, 2017, 06:18 AM
Fly low and fast
Thread OP
[QUOTE=Beemans2;38331688]Here is the build summary for my Pilot RC 26% Hamilton Edge 540.

Thank you for sharing Beemans. Great review.

Basically, I think that the factory CoG is correct IF you leave your fuel tank installed at the same position as given from factory. This is much further forward.
But most of us so I did - move the tank as close as possible to the CoG. In this case straight on the wing tube. Having this in account you must move your CoG forward to compensate the missing weight upfront. (Full Tank) My current CoG is about 6 mm forward of the factory mark and the aircraft is balanced slightly nose heavy at this position.
I am curious how your gyro will work in this bird as we all know our engines are developing tons of vibrations? For myself, I keep electronics as simple as possible. How more things you put into this bird as more can fail and lighter flies better. Just my opinion don't want to criticize.

So far I do not have any thermal issues with my DLE 30. There was no need for additional cuts in the cowl, except the plug. Using a canister mounted in the fuselage.
Head temperature is approx 80-90 degrees C after flight. No hard 3D stuff more IMAC style

Cheers
Last edited by Aviator1165; Sep 24, 2017 at 06:31 AM.
Oct 13, 2017, 02:36 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Fiz
I have the OS GT 33 in my Hamilton Edge and it was a perfect fit, and flies it with great authority. I cant remember what standoffs I may have used but it was a standard size just to ensure the carby clears the firewall.

Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Phil
Fiz,

Did you have to cut a cowl on your Pilot Edge for the GT33 to fit inside?
Oct 31, 2017, 07:55 AM
BWH
BWH
Registered User
I just purchased this airplane with a DLE 40CC twin in it. I am in the process of going through it and installing a smoke system. The original owner did a good job with the build but I like to make sure. It is supposed to have had 4 flights and 1 tank for break in.
Oct 31, 2017, 06:23 PM
Registered User
Flying Fiz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by white_tyson
Fiz,

Did you have to cut a cowl on your Pilot Edge for the GT33 to fit inside?
Hi,

Yes I did. The perfect fit I was referring to was the length of the engine from firewall to prop backplate for just a small gap between cowl and spinner. I cut a good sized cooling hole around muffler exit (straight down side of engine) and it seems to get good airflow and no overheating problems todate.
Jan 01, 2018, 07:02 AM
Registered User

Pilot edge 540


I have the h9 ultra stick, and want to get another nice 30cc plane.
I love the look of this pilot edge and also the great planes escapade. Price aside, how do the 2 brands of planes compare?
Jan 01, 2018, 08:50 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingspam
I have the h9 ultra stick, and want to get another nice 30cc plane.
I love the look of this pilot edge and also the great planes escapade. Price aside, how do the 2 brands of planes compare?
For my purposes, all you would have to do is look at the difference in weights....
Feb 08, 2018, 11:08 AM
Registered User
I have the Escapade 30cc MX and while i don't have an Edge 540... I did have a Pilot RC Sbach 30cc. Bottom line... the Pilot Aircraft are built super light and very high quality. However, while they are very strong they are brittle. Carbon Fiber Gear and minimal structure make for incredibly light aircraft but these planes do not take abuse on landing. I had a hard landing (stalled about 2 feet over the runway after ballooning) and it ripped out the entire bottom of the fuselage out. You will see a lot of people reinforcing the gear mount structure on these aircraft. Also, the Sbach does not glide well. Kill the power and watch out... slows very quickly to stall. A dead stick finally took out my plane. I quickly pitched down for airspeed but just could not build enough to round-out the landing.

The escapade on the other hand is almost a complete opposite. It is built like a tank!!! Heavy plywood, throughout the fuselage and aluminium landing gear. It glides forever without power and a dead stick is a non-issue. Even with flaps you have to kill the power early on approach or you will just fly down the runway. it is more or less a big trainer. However, it is heavy and while it will hover with a DLE 35 you aren't going to be doing any hardcore 3D by a long shot. It just flies great.

Can anyone offer a comparison between the EDge and the Sbach?
Feb 08, 2018, 12:58 PM
Registered User
Edge vs. Sbach, before I say too much, my flying style is low and slow, which the Edge does really, really well. I'm a huge Edge fan for that reason. Compared to an Sbach, you'll be dealing with much more wing rock in my area of expertise. Doing a Harrier is way more "interesting". You really need to be careful. On the upside, the Sbach may be a better tumbler, but nothing as drastic as the difference in low speed handling. Not in my opinion anyway.
Last edited by ahicks; Feb 08, 2018 at 01:15 PM.
Feb 09, 2018, 11:47 AM
Registered User
Thanks for confirming what i suspected. My Sbach was terrible at low and slow and I always had to give myself plenty of altitude when messing around. It was very predictable in normal flight operations but I can't tell you how nervous it made me feel on landings. You had to nail the airspeed on approach or you would stall over the runway or sail down past it. I never had a 3D plane that was so unpredictable on landing. I have warbirds that landed better than the Sbach. thanks for your input. I might just pick up the Edge V3.
Feb 12, 2018, 02:30 PM
Registered User
Has anyone done an electric conversion on this plane?
Feb 13, 2018, 10:14 PM
Registered User
koppterX's Avatar
don't confuse the characteristics of airfoils with the cosmetics of an airplane. An Sbach is a slightly different looking Extra. A yak is an extra with a round cowl. A plane that wanders around at low speeds or does the inadvertent stall likely has a lousy airfoil - could be too sharp on the leading edge for example. By no means is that a trait of an Sbach. It's just a lousy wing design. I like the feel of an Edge too, but there are variables involved that have nothing to do with the name of the airplane. I built a 50cc Aerobeez Sbach a while back that was quite stable at low speeds. The airfoils that were used by AirWild Hobbies (now gone) were awful. You could pull a little elevator on landing and the plane would immediately drop a wing.
Last edited by koppterX; Feb 13, 2018 at 10:27 PM.


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