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Sep 29, 2004, 03:35 PM
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Thread OP

where to get Plans for small fast S400 wing?


Guys where can i find some plans or specs for a S400 foamie wing..something faster than a stock zagi 400X. And any sugestion on airfoils for the small wings if not included on the plans or they are made from fan fold are apreciated

Equipment available for power is:

S400motor reverse timed
1050 Mah NiMh Kan batt
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Sep 30, 2004, 12:05 AM
Crikey never leave beer behind
steve wenban's Avatar

here's your section


this is pretty slippery on a wing
Sep 30, 2004, 12:07 AM
Crikey never leave beer behind
steve wenban's Avatar
make it 38 inch span 60 deg sweep angle and the rest will take care of it self
Sep 30, 2004, 07:56 AM
Registered User
Knife, check out these threads. I did a 28" span 210 in sq version of the mini Zagnutz with a thin airfoil a week ago. Graupner 6v S400 with 5.5 x 4.5 Master Airscrew prop. Once I got it flying it did GREAT! Very good speed for a S400 with 8 KAN1050's. I had it out yesterday and rolled it in to the ground so I'm building a second one now. I had previously nosed it in from about 25' and stuck it in a tree - the only damage was to have a fin pop off! Very durable. I used FFF spar with balsa laminated on both sides and some .024" carbon fiber like the 3DX planes to stiffen the wing in the center section.

The third thread is similar in design and construction just not as fast as the mini zagnutz, all are easy to build. Let me know if you need more info.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...t=Mini+Zagnutz
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...t=Mini+Zagnutz
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226453
Sep 30, 2004, 09:14 AM
Fly safe, fly often!
Buzz_Man's Avatar
You could also create Hermitt's flying wing - probably faster & easier to build - check out the thread titled "Actually Flew My Zagnutz Today" and go to posts #16 & #17. I'm building a 42" version of this wing right now.

Well, now I'm actually typing this reply. But . . . well, you get the idea.
Sep 30, 2004, 01:16 PM
Registered User
Buzz how could Hermitt's wing be faster? It's 355 in sq!

If the finished plane is 15 oz that's a little over 6oz/ft sq. It's a floater!

If you want speed you have to build it small.
Sep 30, 2004, 01:44 PM
Fly safe, fly often!
Buzz_Man's Avatar
As far as I know, the area of a delta wing has to be reduced by some factor to compare to a similarly performing non-delta wing. I have no idea how to calculate this with accuracy and meaning, however several factors are involved including airfoil, wing design (swept, dihedral, chord, et cetera) and so forth.

If you're calculating drag, then a flat wing is going to be a "fast" flyer compared to the same wing shape & area using a "Clark Y" airfoil. If you're calculating lift, the flat wing provides lift via angle of attack rather than pressure changes resulting from air taking a longer or shorter path over or below the airfoil shaped wing. "Fat" airfoils are generally slower - thin ones faster.

I hope someone who really knows what they're talking about comments.

Maybe I'm wrong about all this stuff, but at least I think I'm right.
Sep 30, 2004, 02:18 PM
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Thread OP
Guys thaks for the replies!!! Steve thanks for the airfoil! I'm a beginner at designing /building scratch stuff and sometimes the most dificult time for me is choosing an airfoil since i know nothing bout aifoil selection and whats good and not for specific designs......Well i sat down with some measurements on hand and started cutting some cores...i think that for the electric equip i have is to small. Although i have a little slimer .049 engine than can be used for a craft this small ( i know i know...you guys hate slimers ) Maybe smaller electric equip like Lipos and small ips motor would work great but i don;t really have that equip on hand right now..and he point of this little thing is to be cheap maybe i could come ups with some small NiMh and a small Ips geared or someting i dunno you guys recomend something i'm really behind on the electric stuff....

The specs for the wing right now are :

28" wing span
7 3/4" root chord/ 3 3/4" tip chord (no elevons yet)

those are the basic spec right now for the cores...i plan on using the airfoil steve wenban recomended....so guys give me some opinions!! sounds good ,bad??? I accept any type of constructive criticism

Sep 30, 2004, 02:19 PM
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Thread OP
oops forgot the pic...
Sep 30, 2004, 02:42 PM
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Thread OP
Heres another pic....

This is all the equipment and the unfinished cores. Hmmm if it ended under a pound with those specs woud it fly....?? if it did i guess it would be a brick on deadstick...
Sep 30, 2004, 03:38 PM
Registered User
With the dimensions you gave 7 3/4 root & 3 3/4 tip that works out to about 160 in sq.
That's a little smaller than the one I did. At 210 in sq mine did fine dead stick, had a nice glide and landings were not bad at all. Do a search for the Ryan Bearcat and warbird models, I think you'll find they are all right around 150 to 160 in. sq., and some of the really fast pylon ships have even less area! This one might be worth a try? With the elevons I would quess you'll end up around 180 in. sq.

At 15 oz total, your wing loading will end up to be about 12 oz/sq ft, this is a little high, not at all like a trainer or slow flyer, but it could fly ok and should be fast.

Build it light as possible! I would recommend 0 degrees thurst on the motor, I statred with +3 degrees and it would not climb. Or if you have more foam cut another set of cores with larger root and tip chord.
Sep 30, 2004, 03:45 PM
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Thread OP
wim5150

Yeah i have some more foam and i made small foam cutter...so cutting some more cores won;t be a problem...i might just go ahead and make this one for the small .049 engine...that would drop the weight by a lot and it would be ligher...but will make larger cores for the electric also....
Sep 30, 2004, 07:36 PM
Registered User
So Knife did you cut more cores?
Oct 01, 2004, 02:58 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve wenban
make it 38 inch span 60 deg sweep angle and the rest will take care of it self
I think I have seen you recommend a "60 degree" sweep twice....that would be nuts! Are you sure it's not 30 degrees?

Bernie
Oct 02, 2004, 08:48 AM
Registered User
smallcirrus's Avatar

s400 design


Hi, I will try and attach a picture to this reply showing you what i have come up with for exactly what you are talking about here, it has a 25" span and glides gently quite flairable (just made that word up but I'm sure you know what I mean) and goes like stink whewn you open the taps, the centre section is epp the outboards are normal polystyrene foam, with reinforced tape on the leading edge and across the span about 20% back I cant break it yet, i have done lots of silly things with it so far and it just comes back for more.
If the attachement doesn't work then you can PM me and I'll send you pics direct, the model I'm talking about is a 30% reduction of the picture in my profile box on the side of the posting.

regards.
Alexis


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