Sorry to hear that Knight Owl. I'll be checking my ESC board connectors pronto!
I reckon those Arris sound pretty good, keen to hear the results. At least they have their own WWW site:
http://www.arrishobby.com/motors-for...pter-c-233_142

Cheers

Originally Posted by Knight Owl

I encountered an issue today that I don't recall reading about, but everyone here should be aware of. With only about a dozen flights on my BK, and no hard crashes (haven't even broken a prop yet), I was doing a little LOS freestyle when it suddenly started tumbling out of control after a punch out. At first I thought I may have allowed the battery to drain too far, but while I was looking it over, I found the cause. The multi-pin connectors inside the frame had all worked loose! Evidently, a circuit for the right-rear motor was open, since that motor showed no signs of life under power. This apparently happened in flight, which would explain the behavior I witnessed. After re-seating all (4) connectors, the motor worked again. Unfortunately, the quad hit the ground inverted and bent a motor shaft. I was able to straighten it enough for a test flight, but a decision on replacement motors became more urgent. Since HK is now sold out of the HobbyWing motors, I'll be giving the Arris X2205 a try, and will let you know my thoughts.

Note: To anyone else willing to take a chance, the Arris motors are currently showing up on Amazon for just $33 (4-pc set)!

Originally Posted by thepiper92

F3, F4 and now F7...not sure where F6 and F5 went...refer to just more powerful boards, capable of processing faster. It's essentially like an Intel i3 vs and i7. Both can browse the net, and so forth, but the i7 can do it faster, and it can do more things at the same time. On fc's everything uses resources, from delivering signals to the motors, led lights, buzzers. If you, for instance, shut off accelerometer, which allows self-leveling, you lower the resource usage. This can allow you to bump up loop refresh rates, although you can go much higher on the older fc. Refresh rates are simply how quick the board corrects and interprets inputs that you give while flying. I wouldn't say the older boards are slow, but the newer ones just respond that much faster. You can actually try it by changing loop from 1khz to 2 or 4khz and you'll see the percentage of usage spike. If it is at 100%, you are maxing the board out, and I don't think it will actually fly like that. With an f3 or f4 board, you will see maybe 20% usage, maybe higher if you have more things being used.

Dshot is also similar to f3 or f4 versus the older boards. An esc must react to throttle changes continuously, Oneshot is older one, and Dshot is the newer one that allows for a faster response. Of course, you need an esc that handles dshot, so it isn't like if you have an F4 board, Dshot is good to go. Essentially, the newer stuff just allows for more responsive, accurate flight.

As for airmode, it is just a form of non-self-leveling flight that allows for controls at minimal throttle levels. Looking at a quad, to roll, flip, or yaw, two motors must speed up and two must slow down. If you are at a low throttle, two motors can't really get any slower, thus you lose authority. Airmode just briefly throws in throttle without you doing it to gain the rpm variance to roll, flip, etc, at the rate it is ask of. There is nothing more difficult about flying airmode over regular non-stabilized flight, it make it easier actually.


The new laws here are getting quite ridiculous. They first made up the rules of not flying withing 9km from an airport (that leaves most of the city as a no fly zone), 75 metres from buildings, people, animals. Now they eased up on the restrictions, but are pulling off some stunt with requiring an SFOC (something typically for non-recreational pilots) if you are doing aerobatic stuff when flying, a written knowledge test of airspace, and it's all unknown exactly what is really happening. It is stated that MAAC members, and clubs, are not exempt...so I'm not even sure what will happen if I bring my helis with me to Kenora in August...or whether I should bother renewing my MAAC license, which is only of use to me during my time at that club for 3 weeks vacation every year. Concerning quads, I was flying around my neighbourhood prior to the new rulings. It isn't so much that I'm afraid of law enforcement, but my neighbour, who would not hesitate to call in a complaint about my flying. With a micro, they can't do anything. I still fly my heli near my work, which is technically against the laws, even the relaxed laws, but I've been flying there for years, and no one is concerned about a 550 sized heli going close to their businesses and property (I just fly close for landing, and there has never been an issue with me causing damage or harm to anyone, so they know I'm being safe. The micro quad is mainly for being able to fly near my house, plus it is easy to toss in my bag with my radio, and Fatsharks, no extra bags to tote around.

Betaflight F3 AII-in-one (AIO) =(PDB & FC only)

Stock Spedix B/N 210 ESC's - cut off the" self unplugging "connectors,
Stock (unbeat- not crashed too hard) Spedix sunnysky motors
Rush VTX stacked ontop of FC -
Stock Betaflight PID's just upped the rates


Definitely a major performance upgrade on the Naze FC, if your soldering skills are up to it.
After watching countless hours of YouTube vids on soldering & FC work !
I got LUCKY - for once in my life. otherwise allot of guys I heard overheat the board, = burns it out.

"Invasion of the Disc Golf course"

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwa...ew?usp=drivesd

the donner was = Zoomie's" (this thread starter) BN210

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...jd2SVF3WVNyYm8

As I move into horizon/airmode, I'll hold you to that comment thepiper92

Originally Posted by thepiper92

<snip>

There is nothing more difficult about flying airmode over regular non-stabilized flight, it make it easier actually.

I always have airmode permanently enabled.

At its core airmode is a replacement for an idle up switch.

The idle up switch basically kept the throttle minimum engaged when zero throttle (at the tx stick) is commanded.

Using an idle up switch allowed full throttle reduction down to minimum throttle without having to be precise on where your throttle stick needed to be positioned for minimum throttle.

So you could command zero throttle but the idle up switch is programmed to have the motors spin with zero throttle.

If you don't have airmode enabled your motors will stop when zero throttle is commanded.

"But if I command zero throttle wouldn't I want the motors to stop?" In a quadcopter...I say you never want the motors to stop unless disarmed.

The simplest way to see how airmode (or an idle up switch) benefits a quadcopter is to fly with it on and off. You don't even have to do any fast flights or acrobatic moves.

LOS: With airmode off do some throttle punch ups (just straight up in the air with no yaw, pitch or roll) and go to zero throttle. As your quad starts to descend your motors should stop spinning. While the motors are not spinning and the quad is descending it will naturally start to fall to the side of the quad that is heavier or off centered (cg). Now try to arrest the fall and the quad will twitch and jerk making it unpredictable on where it may decide to dart to after the gyro has done its adjustments.

LOS: With airmode on do the same throttle punch ups and go to zero throttle. You will see that the quad will hold level flight more consistently while descending because the motors are still spinning. The fact that the motors are still spinning makes it easier for the gyro to adjust to changes in a more consistent and predictable manner. Arresting your descent results in a smoother and straight line descent without the quad having tilted to the heavy side during zero throttle.


I might be off on the technicalities of it all but in the end airmode is a great feature to use not just for acrobatics.

Originally Posted by Crashaccepted

I always have airmode permanently enabled.

At its core airmode is a replacement for an idle up switch.

The idle up switch basically kept the throttle minimum engaged when zero throttle (at the tx stick) is commanded.

Using an idle up switch allowed full throttle reduction down to minimum throttle without having to be precise on where your throttle stick needed to be positioned for minimum throttle.

So you could command zero throttle but the idle up switch is programmed to have the motors spin with zero throttle.

If you don't have airmode enabled your motors will stop when zero throttle is commanded.

"But if I command zero throttle wouldn't I want the motors to stop?" In a quadcopter...I say you never want the motors to stop unless disarmed.

The simplest way to see how airmode (or an idle up switch) benefits a quadcopter is to fly with it on and off. You don't even have to do any fast flights or acrobatic moves.

LOS: With airmode off do some throttle punch ups (just straight up in the air with no yaw, pitch or roll) and go to zero throttle. As your quad starts to descend your motors should stop spinning. While the motors are not spinning and the quad is descending it will naturally start to fall to the side of the quad that is heavier or off centered (cg). Now try to arrest the fall and the quad will twitch and jerk making it unpredictable on where it may decide to dart to after the gyro has done its adjustments.

LOS: With airmode on do the same throttle punch ups and go to zero throttle. You will see that the quad will hold level flight more consistently while descending because the motors are still spinning. The fact that the motors are still spinning makes it easier for the gyro to adjust to changes in a more consistent and predictable manner. Arresting your descent results in a smoother and straight line descent without the quad having tilted to the heavy side during zero throttle.


I might be off on the technicalities of it all but in the end airmode is a great feature to use not just for acrobatics.

Yup that's it, thus the option to Air Mode permanently enabled.
One guy I fly with has it on with Horizon,..FPVing.
I.never tried it with self leveling., just switch it on.

@milgil

Antigravity and dynamic filtering are also new and effective features.

In fact I have been an avid betaflight user but cleanflight is starting to grab my interest again. Before cleanflight would fall behind betaflight in features but now that betaflight has decided to slow down their update schedule (which is a good thing) I am finding cleanflight (latest version) is playing really nice with my boards that had betaflight on it.

And, antigravity and dynamic filtering works!

+1 to Crashaccepted's explanation for air mode. It improves the flight envelope and predictability so much, I never want to fly without it anymore. I still enable it separately, only because I haven't yet mastered landing smoothly without it. I just need to adopt the "disarm just before touchdown" method. In fact, I forgot to enable air mode on a LOS flight yesterday, and almost crashed while inverted, because I did a back flip and the rotation was REALLY slow... because the FC had no control and the props weren't turning. For a few seconds I thought I must have bumped my rate switch. But then I realized what I had forgotten to do! If I don't enable it full time, someday I'm gonna regret it.

So Horizon Mode and Airmode are different? I thought they were two descriptions for pretty much the same effect?

Can someone set me straight on this - I use Cleanflight and have Horizon mode set as my 3rd option - Stab/Rate/Horizon.

I can fully understand what it does and why it is of benefit - most of my previous multis were set to keep motors spinning at zero stick throttle for the very reason Crashaccepted explained. I appreciate the way it handles and adjusts throttle input making freestyle/racing easier, particularly at low throttle inputs during aerobatics.

Just confused about the two terms that have been used in this thread. I do recall the early Phantoms (1) would cut throttle at 10% - don't ask me why, but it needed adjusting in the Tx config or she fell like a stone. Jeez, that was a long time ago.

TIA

Originally Posted by Crashaccepted

I always have airmode permanently enabled.

At its core airmode is a replacement for an idle up switch.

The idle up switch basically kept the throttle minimum engaged when zero throttle (at the tx stick) is commanded.

Using an idle up switch allowed full throttle reduction down to minimum throttle without having to be precise on where your throttle stick needed to be positioned for minimum throttle.

So you could command zero throttle but the idle up switch is programmed to have the motors spin with zero throttle.

If you don't have airmode enabled your motors will stop when zero throttle is commanded.

"But if I command zero throttle wouldn't I want the motors to stop?" In a quadcopter...I say you never want the motors to stop unless disarmed.

The simplest way to see how airmode (or an idle up switch) benefits a quadcopter is to fly with it on and off. You don't even have to do any fast flights or acrobatic moves.

LOS: With airmode off do some throttle punch ups (just straight up in the air with no yaw, pitch or roll) and go to zero throttle. As your quad starts to descend your motors should stop spinning. While the motors are not spinning and the quad is descending it will naturally start to fall to the side of the quad that is heavier or off centered (cg). Now try to arrest the fall and the quad will twitch and jerk making it unpredictable on where it may decide to dart to after the gyro has done its adjustments.

LOS: With airmode on do the same throttle punch ups and go to zero throttle. You will see that the quad will hold level flight more consistently while descending because the motors are still spinning. The fact that the motors are still spinning makes it easier for the gyro to adjust to changes in a more consistent and predictable manner. Arresting your descent results in a smoother and straight line descent without the quad having tilted to the heavy side during zero throttle.


I might be off on the technicalities of it all but in the end airmode is a great feature to use not just for acrobatics.

thegeek,

Horizon is a flight mode. Airmode is a feature.

You can fly without airmode and use an idle up switch but you lose the nuances of what airmode adds.

Think of airmode as a combination idle up switch and constant pid/gyro activity at zero throttle.

My description earlier where the quad naturally falls to the heavy side with airmode off is that nuance. Without airmode the gyros and pids are not "active" in terms of constant corrections at zero throttle. When you apply throttle from zero with airmode off the pids and gyros act like a "shock" to the quad because it now needs to correct instantaneously.

With airmode on the pids and gyros have been constantly making small and minor adjustments to keep the last commands valid even though you commanded zero throttle. This small facet is what allows airmode to keep your quad level after a punch up and zero throttle.

You can enable airmode via switch, throttle value or permanently. Every one has their preference and no one is wrong.

Mr. Steele doesn't use airmode and has a traditional idle up switch as well as gyros activated with a switch. His style is different though and his reasons are his own. My personal take on it is that he is concerned with safety and chooses the setup he has.

I personally have the double switch arm programmed on my taranis as well as having my leds only display two colors. Red on armed and yellow on disarmed. I see no reason personally to put blinkers and throttle on rear leds but again that's me.

Okay.

So I have set Horizon in Cleanflight - can I add Airmode to Horizon? Or is Airmode part of Horizon mode, or are they set up separately? Soz, still a bit confused. Time to google.

TIA

Originally Posted by Crashaccepted

thegeek,

Horizon is a flight mode. Airmode is a feature.

You can fly without airmode and use an idle up switch but you lose the nuances of what airmode adds.

Think of airmode as a combination idle up switch and constant pid/gyro activity at zero throttle.

My description earlier where the quad naturally falls to the heavy side with airmode off is that nuance. Without airmode the gyros and pids are not "active" in terms of constant corrections at zero throttle. When you apply throttle from zero with airmode off the pids and gyros act like a "shock" to the quad because it now needs to correct instantaneously.

With airmode on the pids and gyros have been constantly making small and minor adjustments to keep the last commands valid even though you commanded zero throttle. This small facet is what allows airmode to keep your quad level after a punch up and zero throttle.

You can enable airmode via switch, throttle value or permanently. Every one has their preference and no one is wrong.

Mr. Steele doesn't use airmode and has a traditional idle up switch as well as gyros activated with a switch. His style is different though and his reasons are his own. My personal take on it is that he is concerned with safety and chooses the setup he has.

I personally have the double switch arm programmed on my taranis as well as having my leds only display two colors. Red on armed and yellow on disarmed. I see no reason personally to put bli kers and throttle on rear leds but again that's me.

When starting off you can choose to enable airmode with the same switch you use to change flight modes.

Say you have angle, horizon and acro mode enabled but you only want airmode enabled on horizon and acro.

Configure airmode with the same aux channel you use for your flight modes and set the range to activate when you move into horizon/acro and deactivate in angle.

Hey Crash, thanks so much for taking the time mate.

Went back into Cleanflight to check settings and found that I had enabled Airmode as my 3rd mode, but not Horizon Mode - go figure. I thought I'd done it the other way around.

Anyway, added Horizon and Airmode together to activate as my 3rd mode. Time to fly

I see Antigravity there (it's not enabled) - Is that a feature worth enabling?
And I don't have an Acro mode option. Does it come under a different name? Or can I do Acro when set on horizon/airmode?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Crashaccepted

When starting off you can choose to enable airmode with the same switch you use to change flight modes.

Say you have angle, horizon and acro mode enabled but you only want airmode enabled on horizon and acro.

Configure airmode with the same aux channel you use for your flight modes and set the range to activate when you move into horizon/acro and deactivate in angle.

Originally Posted by thegeek

Hey Crash, thanks so much for taking the time mate.

Went back into Cleanflight to check settings and found that I had enabled Airmode as my 3rd mode, but not Horizon Mode - go figure. I thought I'd done it the other way around.

Anyway, added Horizon and Airmode together to activate as my 3rd mode. Time to fly

I see Antigravity there (it's not enabled) - Is that a feature worth enabling?
And I don't have an Acro mode option. Does it come under a different name? Or can I do Acro when set on horizon/airmode?

Thanks.

Attached is an example of how I used to set my modes.

Arm is on aux1 switch.
Flight modes and features are on aux2 switch.

When aux2 is in position 0 it is in angle mode only.

When aux2 is in position 1 it is in horizon mode with anti-gravity and airmode enabled.

When aux 2 is in position 2 it is in acro/rate mode with anti-gravity and airmode enabled.

Thanks Crashaccepted, I see what you have done. I've been studying antigravity. Seems you can adjust the gain and threshold (I checked mine via CLI dump - they are different to those suggested by Joshua Bedwell) - did you adjust these setting at all or simply just enable Antigravity??

As they haven't been altered on my setup yet, I'm tempted to enable antigravity 'as is' in Cleanflight. I'll assume you did the same (in Betaflight maybe)?

One question leads to another question:

Does Horizon mode limit your angles at all? Rate mode (default) obviously does not.? (do I have this right?).

Why would you have a horizon mode AND an acro/rate mode? ie Your position 2 must be what you use for acrobatics? And maybe position 1, Horizon mode for racing?

I'll research it, just getting confused by these labels again

Yes/no answers will suffice

Been watching many videos, easy to get confused at this early stage. But I'm learning.

Originally Posted by Crashaccepted

Attached is an example of how I used to set my modes.

Arm is on aux1 switch.
Flight modes and features are on aux2 switch.

When aux2 is in position 0 it is in angle mode only.

When aux2 is in position 1 it is in horizon mode with anti-gravity and airmode enabled.

When aux 2 is in position 2 it is in acro/rate mode with anti-gravity and airmode enabled.

Answers in red. Hope it helps you and anyone else.

Originally Posted by thegeek

Thanks Crashaccepted, I see what you have done. I've been studying antigravity. Seems you can adjust the gain and threshold (I checked mine via CLI dump - they are different to those suggested by Joshua Bedwell) - did you adjust these setting at all or simply just enable Antigravity??

Your settings will be different. You will have to play with it. I think mine is 3.75 and 1.25 for one of my quads. It varies. Dynamic filtering is also another feature that, when you know what to look for, is great to enable. The latest cleanflight supports it.

As they haven't been altered on my setup yet, I'm tempted to enable antigravity 'as is' in Cleanflight. I'll assume you did the same (in Betaflight maybe)?

You can enable it as is and see if there is a difference in your quad and then how you like that difference. Again each quad varies just like pids.

One question leads to another question:

Does Horizon mode limit your angles at all? Rate mode (default) obviously does not.? (do I have this right?).

Why would you have a horizon mode AND an acro/rate mode? ie Your position 2 must be what you use for acrobatics? And maybe position 1, Horizon mode for racing?

Horizon mode is actually fun to play with. Angles are limited or delimited depending on how you setup your horizon mode. At the full deflection of the stick the angle is not limited to allow you to do a full flip. At center and partial stick your angle is limited to the point of where your stick commands full deflection ie full roll/pitch to flip.

Now the interesting part about horizon is that you get stability flight mode with acro ability (flips and rolls). On hover with pitch/roll sticks centered and just using your throttle to hover your quad will stabilize and remain level. Compared to acro/rate where you do all the leveling.

When you do a flip/roll the gyro/acc will detect that you are inverted and correct the quad back to level right side up. To see this in action get into horizon mode and start to do a flip/roll at full deflection then stop it midway to stop inverted. The gyro/acc will correct the quad back to right side up. BE CAREFUL!!! TRYING TO INVERT IN HORIZON MODE CAN GET SKETCHY FAST!!

In acro/rate mode when you go to invert the quad will stay inverted because the acc is not involved and will not attempt to correct the quad to right way up.

In acro/rate mode you make all the adjustments. The gyro is only used to ensure that your commands are translated correctly to the quad.

You can play with the strength and transition numbers in the horizon section of the pid tuning to make it feel like acro. Dropping horizon strength and transition to 25 25 will make it fly like acro when you command forward pitch ie it will hold the pitch angle until you correct it. However, the strength is still there and so you will be making constant pitch inputs to keep moving forward versus acro/rate where you pitch forward once, return to mid stick and the quad holds that last pitch command.

Now, even with dropping the strength and transition the quad will still get corrected in horizon mode. So again, be careful inverting in horizon mode.

A final note, acro/rate mode is the default flight mode on any configurable board when no other mode is selected. If you program only horizon on a switch in one position moving out of that position to a non-programmed mode is automatically acro/rate.

I use horizon mode for LOS testing after a new build or when making build changes. Other than that I fly acro fpv most of the time.