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Jan 03, 2017, 10:03 PM
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Stories like this.... are why Obama will be the most hated president in History..


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...pprove-pensio/

The Fresh Prince Of Bill Ayers cut a deal with the unions that allows them to cut current and retiree benefits when pensions are underfunded to keep them from going bankrupt. Basically, the ruse is up-unions have been skimming and mishandling the pension account to the point that retirees promised income is now threatened.

What incentive is there for unions to properly manage the funds from here on out, and what incentive is there for properly funded pension loans to continue to behave if they know they can take the cream off the top and just leave enough to keep the rank and file from lynching them?
Jan 03, 2017, 10:06 PM
Registered User
It's OK, unions make people feel good.
Jan 03, 2017, 10:12 PM
Tu ne cede malis
MtnGoat's Avatar
I though unions were the expression of solidarity between workers oppressed by capitalist buisness owners and the various financing schemes created a haven for the hard working union members to enjoy a fruitful, well earned retirement. Social justice at it's finest put into private practice
Jan 03, 2017, 10:14 PM
Tu ne cede malis
MtnGoat's Avatar
the reality...
Quote:
In another words, Congress and the president let workers who spent decades toiling away to vest in retirement programs take the hit for union managers who failed to keep pensions fully funded.

In all, more than 10 million U.S. workers rely on multiemployer pension plans. About 1 million of those could get notices next year informing them that the pension benefits they were promised when they signed on to their jobs may be cut.

Only those older than 75 get any relief.

The concession to union lobbying was a major reversal for Congress, which in the past steadfastly protected the pensions of workers who already had retired.

“The real point of contention is in the cutting of benefits in payment status, meaning benefits currently being paid to retirees. That’s a dramatic departure from long-standing legislation and practice that essentially says that benefits currently being paid cannot be reduced,” said Jean-Pierre Aubry, assistant director of state and local research at Boston College’s Center for Retirement Research.

Mr. Aubry said the new law will enable multiemployer plans to make deeper cuts to pensions than the 2006 Pension Protection Act allowed. “The new legislation allows for more dramatic cuts to the accrued benefits for current workers and, notably, allows for cuts to the benefits currently being paid to retirees,” he said.
Jan 03, 2017, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat
I though unions were the expression of solidarity between workers oppressed by capitalist buisness owners and the various financing schemes created a haven for the hard working union members to enjoy a fruitful, well earned retirement. Social justice at it's finest put into private practice
You laugh now and enjoy the taste of that Schadenfreude, but mark my words you'll be opening up your wallet to cover the shortfall.
Jan 03, 2017, 11:00 PM
Tu ne cede malis
MtnGoat's Avatar
Undoubtedly. This is what unions are really for...to soak other people by force to obtain what they cannot obtain without the use of that force.
Jan 04, 2017, 06:44 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Yep, but it's the management who is using the union workers by force.
Without the unions representing the workers and leveling the playing field, workers would be doomed to servitude.
Jan 04, 2017, 06:45 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat
Undoubtedly. This is what unions are really for...to soak other people by force to obtain what they cannot obtain without the use of that force.
Unions are there to keep the greedy takers from taking from the workers.
Jan 04, 2017, 07:22 AM
I smell lithium now
D B Cooper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat
the reality...
How many times did the words 'law' and 'legislation' appear there? When did the legjslature pass the bill to the president again?

People recognizing fake laws is a big part of the problem these days. I see no reason someone who gets screwed by this couldn't sue the union for fraud.

Edit - omg what a rarity, a law that actually came from the lawmaking process.
Last edited by D B Cooper; Jan 04, 2017 at 07:28 AM.
Jan 04, 2017, 07:25 AM
I smell lithium now
D B Cooper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Campbell
You laugh now and enjoy the taste of that Schadenfreude, but mark my words you'll be opening up your wallet to cover the shortfall.
Yup. Being union, these are probably government employees. Aside from the big three oems' plants, are there any commie shops left in modern times?
Jan 04, 2017, 07:58 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by D B Cooper
Yup. Being union, these are probably government employees. Aside from the big three oems' plants, are there any commie shops left in modern times?
There are thousands of union shops around the country that aren't big and don't get the attention of have the clout of the UAW. Working conditions and arrangements are completely different for these workers than they are for an hourly auto plant worker. I have worked in two of those shops in my career, it's not like you think. Millions of people who went to work, find a trade that forced them to be in a union, gave their best and their health to the job and are now retired don't deserve to get screwed out of their pension income that was promised to them.

My best friend is a good example. He works for the city of Detroit as a brick layer, has worked for other businesses in the suburbs for his whole adult life. He was forced to be in a union, paid dues his whole career, put in the time skinning concrete block in ten degree weather for decades and now has to fix water mains etc for the city in places I won't go even with a gun. His shoulder have blown out rotator cuffs, his knees are bad, he can't work in his trade until he dies. He hopes to manage to get by another ten years...... But....

They have already raided his annuity twice to the tune of 60k and now he's finding out his pension plan is 65% funded at a time most of his coworkers are eligible to retire in ten years or less. He's screwed under this law, they stole from him and he's just boned with nothing he can do about it.
Jan 04, 2017, 09:36 AM
Be seeing you.
RCWorks's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat
I though unions were the expression of solidarity between workers oppressed by capitalist buisness owners and the various financing schemes created a haven for the hard working union members to enjoy a fruitful, well earned retirement. Social justice at it's finest put into private practice
Today's union is a large pool of workers milked of their money and oppressed by the local crime bosses(AKA union leadership).
Jan 04, 2017, 09:38 AM
It's 5 O'clock Somewhere
RumRunner_1492's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp
Yep, but it's the management who is using the union workers by force.
Without the unions representing the workers and leveling the playing field, workers would be doomed to servitude.
Do you hire only union employees? Would you not treat your employees fairly if they weren't in a union?
Jan 04, 2017, 10:36 AM
I smell lithium now
D B Cooper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Campbell
There are thousands of union shops around the country that aren't big and don't get the attention of have the clout of the UAW. Working conditions and arrangements are completely different for these workers than they are for an hourly auto plant worker. I have worked in two of those shops in my career, it's not like you think. Millions of people who went to work, find a trade that forced them to be in a union, gave their best and their health to the job and are now retired don't deserve to get screwed out of their pension income that was promised to them.

My best friend is a good example. He works for the city of Detroit as a brick layer, has worked for other businesses in the suburbs for his whole adult life. He was forced to be in a union, paid dues his whole career, put in the time skinning concrete block in ten degree weather for decades and now has to fix water mains etc for the city in places I won't go even with a gun. His shoulder have blown out rotator cuffs, his knees are bad, he can't work in his trade until he dies. He hopes to manage to get by another ten years...... But....

They have already raided his annuity twice to the tune of 60k and now he's finding out his pension plan is 65% funded at a time most of his coworkers are eligible to retire in ten years or less. He's screwed under this law, they stole from him and he's just boned with nothing he can do about it.
That sure sucks. I bet that guy understands why so many of us in the gap between gen x and the millenials have a tough time taking the government's word that social security will be there for us, even though its own trustees say it won't. A bird in the bush isn't worth much.

Personally, I'd be surprised if 401k accounts arent stolen over the next 25 years
Jan 04, 2017, 11:55 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by D B Cooper
That sure sucks. I bet that guy understands why so many of us in the gap between gen x and the millenials have a tough time taking the government's word that social security will be there for us, even though its own trustees say it won't. A bird in the bush isn't worth much.

Personally, I'd be surprised if 401k accounts arent stolen over the next 25 years
I think there are people working 70 hours a week at financial firms looking into legal mechanisms and arguements on how to get access to 401K funds that they don't have now under current law, and I think conversion to Government Bonds is discussed in every session of Congress and in the White House by every President. 401k's are the largest untapped pool of cash in the world, you have to know that there are people doing everything they can to get access to it. People like you and I don't stand a chance.

Hell, even Jug Ears was publicly floating trial balloons on Nationalization of 401K's a few years ago.


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