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Nov 05, 2020, 11:17 PM
Modeling Retread
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Engines - Old School vs New School


The Orange CWC came with a Zenoah G23. This the old school gas engine for the Sig 1/4 scale CWC, as identified in the instruction manual. It’s a lot heavier than the OS 120 4c I had in my ARF 80” CWC, but similar in power. The G23 should have enough power to fly pretty scale and enough for mild aerobatics.

My second CWC was my first Sig 1/4 Scale model. I put a 2.0 ci (~33 cc) on it. It was considerably more spritely than the first CWC. Thinking ahead, I had been contemplating what engine to put into Sig 1/4 scale CWC I’m going to build. I’ve already acquired several pieces. My original plan was to build a mild version so I had acquired an RCGF 21. Then I decided I wanted to duplicate a more powerful aircraft so I knew I needed to go bigger. I had been debating a choice between a DLE 30 side exhaust and a DLE 35 rear exhaust. The rear exhaust seemed a little better suited to my application but it was 25% more expensive.

Last week, Tower had a 4-hr Flash sale that included a 25% discount on the DLE 35. Sold! Surprisingly,, even though I ordered it on Friday, it arrived on Sunday. I did not order any special shipping, just the normal free shipping. I wonder it Tower/Horizon now has a Texas warehouse.

Below are pictures of the two engines, comparing weights, as equal as possible. The G23 is heavier than the DLE 35. The Orange CWC came with a pretty good sized weight in the tank area. I don’t recall how much balance weight I needed in the previous Sig CWC but, as I recall, that 2.0 ci engine was more hefty than the DLE. I do know, from experience, the more powerful engine will need extra bracing in and around the engine mount.
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Nov 08, 2020, 09:07 PM
Modeling Retread
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I didn’t get anything done last week. Oh, I had plans but they just kept being interrupted. Mostly family stuff and a club meeting. Oh and, work full time too. After a month of flying and events I also have some repairs to do.

I did do one thing today. You know how there’s always some litter thing that just seems to allude you? For me I keep having to look up the dual aileron connection numbers. I’ve done it plenty of times but...

I need to know it as I build because I use number wire markers to identify leads. So today I referenced it from another airplane and put a tape marker on the trailing edge with the numbers.
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Nov 09, 2020, 11:00 AM
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With the Spektrum transmitter, once you’ve set the wing type the channels are named on the servo monitor display page. So you can identify which channel is which function by turning on the transmitter, selecting the model and looking at the servo monitor page, just a roll away from the main screen.

I always forget this until after I hunt around in the transmitter manual for the info.
Nov 09, 2020, 11:04 PM
Modeling Retread
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True enough Dave, just like I can find it in the manual but you’d think after a while I’d remember this, which reminds me of a story....

An Admiral’s long serving orderly saw him open his safe every morning as he was bringing his breakfast. The Admiral would look at a piece of paper, then put it back. When the Admiral retired, the orderly went in to do the final cleaning of his cabin and noticed the safe was open and the paper was still there. It read:

PORT IS LEFT, STARBOARD IS RIGHT

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGell
With the Spektrum transmitter, once you’ve set the wing type the channels are named on the servo monitor display page. So you can identify which channel is which function by turning on the transmitter, selecting the model and looking at the servo monitor page, just a roll away from the main screen.

I always forget this until after I hunt around in the transmitter manual for the info.
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Nov 27, 2020, 11:38 PM
Modeling Retread
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I had my second cataract surgery this month, so prepping for, having and recovering from have taken up some time. I have now installed the aileron servos and have prepped for getting them connected.

I’m not crazy about where the original builder mounted the aileron servos but I’m going with it to reduce rebuild effort. When I build the next one the servos will be under a mounting plate, next to the main spar. The current mounting does have one advantage, minimizing push rod length.

Although the Hitec 645MGs are standard size, and were replacing standard sized servos, they didn’t fit. Mostly it was the heftier servo lead connection to the case but it was also a little plumper around the body too. I used my battery powered Dremel too recess a path for the servo lead in the servo mount beam and nudge a little more room for the body. The servo mount screw holes matched perfectly, which I guess is the main standard of standard sized servos. No hill for a stepper, as they say.

I think I’ve noted before that the original builder hard wired the aileron servos to a single lead. There is a tube in each wing for the servo wiring but it is only big enough for the wire itself, no connector. My first task was to remove the old wire and pull the new wire. On the right wing (left in these photos) I taped the new wire to the old wire and pulled it through carefully. Since that worked I tried it on the left wing but failed. Fortunately, I had some light gauge music wire on which I could form a hook and pull it through. (I got 25’ of Hitec HD servo lead on Amazon, mentally handy because of the matching colors when making connections.)

The wires are pulled through their runs, with extra length to make adding connectors easier, with room for mistakes. I’ve done a fair share of the connections but it sometimes takes a couple of mistakes to get in 5he groove.

Finally, I’ve pulled together the tools an supplies for wiring the system up, as seen in the last picture. Do you need all of them, no but I have them, so I’ll use them. I’ll give some specifics in my next post.
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Nov 29, 2020, 11:27 PM
Modeling Retread
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Got the servos extensions made in place and got the wing closed up. In this post I’ll show details on some tools you might find useful but not everything I used. I don’t give a tutorial on the actual process for putting connectors on the leads because you can find threads hear by people who do explain and show it better than I could.

I checked the leads with my servo tester. Plugged each one in and set it to cycle. When I knew connections worked, I put shrink tubing over the servo connections in the wing. It might seem like a belt and suspenders option but it only took a couple of minutes to do both. Just for caution, it powered up the servos with the cycles again after that.

I used Eastman Fastbond contact cement to glue the flaps back down. I used heat to make sure it set.

The servo installation is now complete. The receiver has a mounting spot ready and the place for the regulator switch in the fuselage side has been cut So now it’s final battery/regulator harness placement and mounting the remote receiver.

Next (planned hardware step prepping for the Robart Hinges.
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Nov 30, 2020, 01:00 AM
Registered User
Did you think about removing the pins from the housing on one end of an extension cable then snake the cable through tube. Once the wire is pulled through you can reinstall pins in the housing.

Where did you get the wire stripper?
Nov 30, 2020, 02:01 PM
Modeling Retread
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGell
Did you think about removing the pins from the housing on one end of an extension cable then snake the cable through tube. Once the wire is pulled through you can reinstall pins in the housing.

Where did you get the wire stripper?
No, I didn't think of that but I doubt I would have done so if I had. I suppose it was because I was already set up to make these connections, it was just the way to go. Additionally, while the pins can be removed, the metal from which they are made is thin and not especially springy. It would be easy to damage.

I got the wire stripper and the HD diacs off of Amazon, where we get everything we want buy but for which we don't want to actively shop.
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Dec 03, 2020, 12:03 AM
Modeling Retread
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Rote Work

Tonight I did prep work on my Robart Hinges. They’ve been soaking in denatured alcohol to remove the oils from the molding process. I drained the alcohol into the kitchen sink then dumped them on a paper towel to dry. The one-by-one, side-by-side, I used coarse sandpaper to rough up the gluing surface. Both steps are highly recommended for any type of plastic hinge (besides CA hinges).

I used sticky back sandpaper because it’s easier to work with, as the glue side keeps it from slipping from your fingers.

On my last CWC I used CA hinges but the original builder beat me to that. I have to work around the original hinge sites and the small footprint of these Robart Hinges makes it easier. The rudder and elevator connections will be fairly easy as I have the Robart drill jig for them. The ailerons are more of a freehand effort. I’ve watched several YouTube videos for ideas and I have a plan. (Remembering what a logistics Brigadier said at a DOD conference: “A plan is to know from what you are deviating.”)

Chemistry trivia - What do they mean by denatured alcohol? Besides making tasty beverages, ethanol is a valuable industrial solvent. During prohibition, ethanol production by fermentation didn’t stop, it was diverted to industrial use. To prevent misuse, this industrial solvent had to be denatured, that is take away its evil nature as a drink. This was done by mixing various other chemicals and solvents into the alcohol. It’s still being done to average the tax stamp requirements. The one I got at Lowe’s is denatured with methanol. Gasoline (unadditized) is another common ingredient. Schools use 3A alcohol, 95% etanol 5% isopropanol (the 3A) because it’s not toxic but it will make you sick as a dog with diarrhea.
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Dec 03, 2020, 07:10 AM
San Antonio TX.
sensei's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRW3
Rote Work

Tonight I did prep work on my Robart Hinges. They’ve been soaking in denatured alcohol to remove the oils from the molding process. I drained the alcohol into the kitchen sink then dumped them on a paper towel to dry. The one-by-one, side-by-side, I used coarse sandpaper to rough up the gluing surface. Both steps are highly recommended for any type of plastic hinge (besides CA hinges).

I used sticky back sandpaper because it’s easier to work with, as the glue side keeps it from slipping from your fingers.

On my last CWC I used CA hinges but the original builder beat me to that. I have to work around the original hinge sites and the small footprint of these Robart Hinges makes it easier. The rudder and elevator connections will be fairly easy as I have the Robart drill jig for them. The ailerons are more of a freehand effort. I’ve watched several YouTube videos for ideas and I have a plan. (Remembering what a logistics Brigadier said at a DOD conference: “A plan is to know from what you are deviating.”)

Chemistry trivia - What do they mean by denatured alcohol? Besides making tasty beverages, ethanol is a valuable industrial solvent. During prohibition, ethanol production by fermentation didn’t stop, it was diverted to industrial use. To prevent misuse, this industrial solvent had to be denatured, that is take away its evil nature as a drink. This was done by mixing various other chemicals and solvents into the alcohol. It’s still being done to average the tax stamp requirements. The one I got at Lowe’s is denatured with methanol. Gasoline (unadditized) is another common ingredient. Schools use 3A alcohol, 95% etanol 5% isopropanol (the 3A) because it’s not toxic but it will make you sick as a dog with diarrhea.
I use Pre Kleeno 900 to wash my Robart hinges prior to installation, it’s sole purpose is for washing oil grease wax, road grime or whatever from any surface that needs to be painted and adhesion is important. In addition I take the pin hinges and place them in my cordless drill and spin them on slow speed while pinching them with my other hand with a piece of red Scotch Bright. This gives the hinges a fantastic tooth for bonding in. Just food for thought.

Bob
Dec 03, 2020, 02:22 PM
Modeling Retread
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei
I use Pre Kleeno 900 to wash my Robart hinges prior to installation, it’s sole purpose is for washing oil grease wax, road grime or whatever from any surface that needs to be painted and adhesion is important. In addition I take the pin hinges and place them in my cordless drill and spin them on slow speed while pinching them with my other hand with a piece of red Scotch Bright. This gives the hinges a fantastic tooth for bonding in. Just food for thought.

Bob
Pre Kleeno 900, per the safety data sheet, is a variable mix of naphtha, Stoddard solvent and alcohol. I'll assume there may be some amounts of additive also. It's pretty pricey, at a listed price of $80/gal. I think I paid about $3 for the quart of denatured alcohol. Personally I'd prefer to work with an alcohol to working with a light hydrocarbon but I think either will do the job.
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Dec 03, 2020, 03:30 PM
Aviation Enthusiast
nhk750's Avatar
Theres nothing like good old Xylene!
Dec 03, 2020, 10:31 PM
San Antonio TX.
sensei's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRW3
Pre Kleeno 900, per the safety data sheet, is a variable mix of naphtha, Stoddard solvent and alcohol. I'll assume there may be some amounts of additive also. It's pretty pricey, at a listed price of $80/gal. I think I paid about $3 for the quart of denatured alcohol. Personally I'd prefer to work with an alcohol to working with a light hydrocarbon but I think either will do the job.
Yes they will both do the job nicely, but I also do a lot of paintwork on my models and Pre Kleeno is much better suited for that, so I use it on everything that requires a good bond line before abrading and after.

Bob
Dec 06, 2020, 11:44 PM
Modeling Retread
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Hinging the Ailerons


This evening I finished the dry part of the aileron hinging.

I started a couple of days ago by marking the spots for the hinges. I used green frog tape for setting the hinge point general locations. Then I used blue painters tape to make some temporary hinging. Then I marked the hinge locations. The hinge spacing is not even because I’m working around the hinge locations used by the originals builder, who used very wide CA hinges. I just don’t think trying to drill into the CA hinge material would be a good idea.

I used a stepwise process to drill the holes. First I used our old friend, the #11 X-Acto blade to make an initial pilot Mark. The I used successive drill sizes, 3/32”, 1/8” and finally 3/16” to make the hole for the hinge point. I used hex body bits in an electric screwdriver for better control. Finally, I used a countersink bit so I could get the proper recession for hinge point.

This all went real well and the basic dry part of the hinging is complete. Now I have repair the paint around the hinging surfaces. Before doing that I’ll do the rudder and elevator hinging. The paint on those hinging surfaces also has to be repaired.
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Dec 07, 2020, 11:01 AM
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nhk750's Avatar
Robart hinges are definitely the way to go, but they do take a bit of work to get right, looks great! P. S. I was kidding about using Xylene, denatured alcohol is the best to use for cleaning them like you did...


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