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Dec 27, 2016, 05:03 PM
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Solid state battery advances


pie in the sky? Anybody know anything more about this technology?

http://eng.umd.edu/html/news/news_story.php?id=10185
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Dec 27, 2016, 05:23 PM
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When I hear solid-state being used to describe a battery, my mind immediately goes to marketing hype since all batteries most batteries solid-state, and all batteries are solid-state if you go by the number of moving parts batteries have.
Dec 27, 2016, 05:38 PM
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Solid electrolyte as opposed to liquid according to the paper.
Dec 28, 2016, 06:06 PM
UAV Flight Operations Manager
From the article:
" Prior to this advance, there had been little success in developing high-performance, garnet-based solid-state batteries, because the high impedance, more commonly called resistance,-"

Umm...no. Impedance and resistance are actually different. You would not commonly call resistance impedance.
Dec 28, 2016, 07:38 PM
I am a nice guy! Really!
Impedance is more accurate when discussing batteries because the impedance to current flow does not act like a resistor, even though it is sometimes modeled as such. For one thing the impedance changes with state of charge. The quoted sentence is accurate though because the impedance is commonly called resistance even though it is not a pure resistor.
Dec 29, 2016, 01:00 AM
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the claims are of this lithium-garnet based battery are intriguing. It will be a while before anything practical is available(from what I can tell searching) but something to watch.
Dec 29, 2016, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philthyy View Post
From the article:
" Prior to this advance, there had been little success in developing high-performance, garnet-based solid-state batteries, because the high impedance, more commonly called resistance,-"

Umm...no. Impedance and resistance are actually different. You would not commonly call resistance impedance.
So you reckon all the people talking about the IR of our batteries really mean Internal Resistance ? It's not really impedance at all ?

Impedance is COMMONLY referred to as resistance in many cases...which is what the article says. Not the other way round as you have written it.

Steve
Dec 29, 2016, 10:07 AM
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I found your link a good read.
Motor car manufacturers must be watching battery development very closely. I would guess they have a magic number, say, - when 50lbs weight of battery can propel a family sized car at 70mph for 3 hours.- When this technology is achieved, then I think we'll see a mega shift from combustion to electric cars very quickly.
Just a thought.
Dec 29, 2016, 10:24 AM
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Ain't going to happen in the reasonable future. Battery chemistry is very well understood and has been for decades or more. Lithium based batteries are marginal for electric car usage and that is the best available by far. Range and cost are a big problem.
Dec 29, 2016, 11:16 AM
UAV Flight Operations Manager
There is such a massive global demand for batteries that whoever actually brings to market a battery that meets enough of the requirements to be considered as the next step, they will literally have BILLIONS of dollars in sales on their hands. Immediately.

Needless to say, there is an insane amount of research dollars dedicated to developing that next step in battery technology.
Dec 29, 2016, 11:36 AM
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Global demand does not change the laws of physics!
Dec 29, 2016, 12:58 PM
UAV Flight Operations Manager
Ever hear of metamaterials? They don't change, or break, the laws of physics...but they sure appear to! They are stunning in what they can do.

Materials are being engineered and manufactured at molecularly precise and controlled levels in many industries, not just chip manufacturing anymore.

Materials engineers are constantly creating new, complex materials that exhibit never before seen behavior. How long till the right materials are created and assembled into a battery that has ~3 times the capacity of existing lithium batteries, is safer (far less likely to combust), and doesn't need a complete rewrite of existing production techniques and processes?

I feel that once those core requirements are met, we'll see the next step in battery technology quickly come to market.
Dec 29, 2016, 01:02 PM
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I would love to see it! But I am very skeptical. Battery technology has been very slow to develop because a good battery requires highly reactive materials that are also readily available and safe to handle and dispose of or recycle.
Dec 29, 2016, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt_Ampere View Post
Global demand does not change the laws of physics!
Whilst this is true, potential high global demand will certainly spur on research. As philthyy says, there are $billions to be made. IMHO, when the watt hour/Kg ratio reaches a certain point, it will become viable to use batteries in all cars, to store electricity at home generated by renewable source, either wind or light, or even tides, maybe even have battery powered aircraft with solar panels on the wings. The potential is phenomenal.
Dec 29, 2016, 04:41 PM
I am a nice guy! Really!
Watt hr/kg is not the most important factor for non mobile use since there is relatively large space to keep batteries around the home. $/watt hr would be more important. Cheap and long lifespan will get them into homes.


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