FrSky Redundancy Bus 10 - Page 11 - RC Groups
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Sep 13, 2017, 04:31 AM
FJH
FJH
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron_sam
2 elevators 2 ailerons 2 flaps 1 rudder and 1 throttle signal will be going into the rb10, 1 nose steer servo and 3 electronic retracts will be going into the sbus decoder.
Also is it possible to not run 2 batteries for the servos as my servos are only rated at 6V. Maybe a 15A bec that I have lying around will work? So in that case there won't be power redundant, but there will be rf redundancy.
Yes, you can do that, it will work also.
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Sep 13, 2017, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FJH
Yes, you can do that, it will work also.
Just to confirm with the latest firmware, the rb10 will choose the receiver with better reception right? Meaning switching between receivers in real time, correct?
Because if I'm not mistaken, the old firmware only allow to switch to slave receiver ONLY when master receiver go into failsafe mode.
Sep 13, 2017, 10:53 AM
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webbsolution's Avatar
You are mistaken - RB series always provided a synchronized Sbus stream unless you were using custom firmware which I do not think was released.

The RX8R is master/ slave using the RX8 as the master until it has a failsafe and then it changes over.

I am interested in understanding what happens to the Rx8R if you use it with an external module and a crossfire - I expect that that there might be some PWM Us differences and you might get a stutter when it changes over but its still an interesting experiment ... if the Rx8R is only "leveraging" the Sbus stream when the primary is down then it should work like the Crossfire and RB-10 does now (perfectly)
Sep 13, 2017, 08:57 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by webbsolution
You are mistaken - RB series always provided a synchronized Sbus stream unless you were using custom firmware which I do not think was released.

The RX8R is master/ slave using the RX8 as the master until it has a failsafe and then it changes over.

I am interested in understanding what happens to the Rx8R if you use it with an external module and a crossfire - I expect that that there might be some PWM Us differences and you might get a stutter when it changes over but its still an interesting experiment ... if the Rx8R is only "leveraging" the Sbus stream when the primary is down then it should work like the Crossfire and RB-10 does now (perfectly)
So in conclusion, rb10 and the big rb always choose the rx with better reception in real time and switch between the 2 depending on which rx has higher rssi reading right? If that is what synchronisation mean.
Sep 13, 2017, 09:10 PM
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webbsolution's Avatar
Not quite -

You have two singers BOTH singing in B# at the same time... You hear them both - its the same note - exactly from them both. IF singer one stops - what note do you hear ? B# ! if Singer 1 continues and singer 2 stops - you hear B# - when they both sing which one are you hearing... ?

BOTH -

The RB takes both streams and synchronizes them into a single stream. If one stops the other is there (singing) . If they both stop - you better have a failsafe set



Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron_sam
So in conclusion, rb10 and the big rb always choose the rx with better reception in real time and switch between the 2 depending on which rx has higher rssi reading right? If that is what synchronisation mean.
Sep 16, 2017, 01:37 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by webbsolution
Not quite -

You have two singers BOTH singing in B# at the same time... You hear them both - its the same note - exactly from them both. IF singer one stops - what note do you hear ? B# ! if Singer 1 continues and singer 2 stops - you hear B# - when they both sing which one are you hearing... ?

BOTH -

The RB takes both streams and synchronizes them into a single stream. If one stops the other is there (singing) . If they both stop - you better have a failsafe set
thanks, very were explained.
Sep 17, 2017, 09:24 PM
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webbsolution's Avatar
You are welcome. Music is universal to us all
Sep 18, 2017, 10:38 AM
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ckleanth's Avatar
what if singer #1 is a bit different to singer #2, for example #1 is stabilized through an autotune.

I thought rb-10 listen to #1 if connection lost goes to #2 until #1 comes back for 4 consecutive solid streams of data, then switch to #1

i didnt like that approach anyway, but has this now changed?
Sep 18, 2017, 11:14 AM
Registered User
you would wind up with two different s.bus streams into the RB which will result in servo jitter as the RB creates the composite s.bus stream when you have frame losses on the input streams.
Sep 18, 2017, 11:49 AM
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webbsolution's Avatar
What he said....

@ckleanth you are describing the fail back process of the RX8R which is not redundancy - its a secondary satellite RX which is not active until a failsafe.

In Information technology terms think of it as a round robin approach - you hit the first server in line for whatever service you are needing - lets say authentication. In round robin the server has X MS to respond and then server #2 gets shot. They are BOTH plugged in and ready but server #2 will never see a single authentication request if server #1 is never down or busy. Thats classic master/Slave relationships.

The RB is more like high availability where BOTH servers are active and available all the time but in the case of the RB10 you are getting a a synchronized stream as Raleigh points out.
Sep 18, 2017, 01:27 PM
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The RX8R has the same redundancy system as the RB10. It does not use failsafe to switch.
Sep 18, 2017, 01:50 PM
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webbsolution's Avatar
Please link something from Frsky that details this. From the RX8R thrread the initial setup was switching on FS @ 100 frames lost then that was dropped to 20 frames.

If the RX8R is using a synchronized sbus stream and Frsky is stating that publicly please show us where that is stated.
Sep 18, 2017, 06:52 PM
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ckleanth's Avatar
do you guys have the composed synthesis methodology?

I'm going to test for jitter but I think it should still work if it always creates a synthesised output. the stabilization is only used for the plane to track better but I'm not really using high gains at all.

I was expecting a 9ms lag from the x8r (i'm outputting 8ch from the rx anyway) and my stabilized output processes and sends all sbus stream within a few (3-4ms) from the time it receives it.

Im now thinking what lag the RB-10 will add.
Sep 18, 2017, 09:24 PM
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mpjf01's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by webbsolution
Please link something from Frsky that details this. From the RX8R thrread the initial setup was switching on FS @ 100 frames lost then that was dropped to 20 frames.

If the RX8R is using a synchronized sbus stream and Frsky is stating that publicly please show us where that is stated.
I don't recall any discussion about the frame count. The way the system initially worked was that the satellite receiver took over when the primary (RX8R) went to failsafe. There's discussion in the thread about the observed lag between FS on the RX8R and transition to the satellite which several firmware releases reduced to imperceptible, but no discussion there about a revision of the operation to meld frames from the primary and satellite receivers - so I guess it's somewhere else.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...al-%C2%96-RX8R

My testing suggests that the firmware may be now selecting the receiver with the stronger signal. I don't have any sophisticated mechanism so can only observe this by binding the RX8R and a XM+ to different transmitters and setting a control such as the throttle to a different position on each. Then I put the Tx bound to the RX8R into RT mode and take it away to a point where RSSI is critical. I see the throttle servo jittering between the setting on each of the Tx suggesting that the frames from both receivers are being used. I have repeated this test with a G-RX8 and see the same. I have also attempted to do so with a R-XSR, so far unsuccessfully.
Sep 18, 2017, 10:12 PM
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webbsolution's Avatar
Ok so we essentially agree. Failsafe events are triggeriny An RX primary change. Failsafe events are triggered by frame loss = x where x is determined by firmware. Standard failsafe required 100 but this was producing an effect that was felt so the margins was reduced to 20 as I understand it but that's certainly not the same as the Rb series


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