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Nov 07, 2016, 07:44 AM
I'm not as bad as they say.
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Tarani-curious


It seems that the Taranis is becoming the defacto choice for DLG radios in my little world. I've tried to help newbs with getting up to speed and I've evolved my DLG program up to about rev 4 based on input from new Taranis users that are also very experienced sailplane pilots.
I documented the ideas in an ongoing document that is kinda buried in another thread, but I thought I'd make a new thread that is aimed at helping people get started with understanding Taranis. There are a lot of good DLG setups out there, but not a lot of DLG specific advice about how the setups work. The goal of this thread is to spread the understanding so that if you do want to make your own program or modify someone else's you will have the knowledge to do so.
First the link to the current version of the document.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=709

I'll probably put the updated document is a dropbox link going forward because it's getting pretty large, and having it in dropbox means the current one will always be in the same place.

On the way to the contest last weekend I created yet another program for for a new Taranite, Jody Miller. In doing so I created a setup that I will change to soon.

In overview:
6 Flight modes:
FM1 : Launch/Rotate
FM2 : Zoom
FM3 : Pushover Cruise (trim tracks cruise, but no flaps) make sure trims are set to 5, not 3.
FM4 : Speed
FM5 : Cruise
FM6 : Thermal

Launch switch is SF (SH for lefties).
Flight mode switch is SB (or whatever you choose).

In practice :
Flaps work in FM4,5 and 6. Flaps are denied in FM1,2 and 3.
POCruise(FM3) trim (elev,camber, etc) track the trim from Cruise (FM5).
Flight mode priority is used, so the flight mode order is required.

In normal flight FM4,5&6 there are all independent trims, and the flaps work.
For landing/Quick turn you land in any mode you want S/C/T (speed cruise or thermal).
You can leave the flap stick down as you tip catch.
Pressing the momentary launch switch retracts the flaps and selects launch mode.
Releasing the momentary switch selects zoom mode, flaps still denied.
At this point you can do things in two different orders.
1) If you leave the flap stick down and move the elevator the radio changes to POCruise, this is a flight mode that uses the cruise trims, but with denied flaps. When you do this the radio gently announces "flaps up" to remind you to pull the flap stick up. When you do, the radio changes to whatever flight mode is selected on SB.
2) If you push the flap stick up during zoom, then when you pushover the radio will switch to whatever flight mode is selected on the flight mode switch (SB).
At the end of either sequence the flaps are armed again and you are in FM4,5 or 6.

Jody flew this all weekend with no issues.

How it works:
Here is the setup:
Flight mode selection:
1:SF↓
2:L9
3:L10 use flight mode 5 trim
4:SB↑
5:SB-
6:SB↓

Logical Switches (NOTE make sure you use the RAW inputs where noted so your trims won't affect the logical operation!)
L5: |a|>x Eraw 10 FM2 -- FM2 is AND column, this detects elevator movement in zoom
L6: a>x Traw 90 -- detects throttle up
L7 : edge SF↓ 0.0:<< -- detects pull of launch switch
L8 : and L5 !L6 -- detects when elevator is moved in FM2 and throttle is low
L9 : sticky L7 L5 -- remembers the pull of launch switch , forgets on elevator movement in fm2
L10 : sticky L8 L6 -- remembers when elevator is moved in fm2 with throttle low, forgets on throttle up
L11 : edge SF↑ -- detects release of launch switch to start flight timer.

Mixer:
Make sure the flap mixer is only enabled for FM4,5 and 6 (and 7 and 8 if you have a camber switch, more later) and is disabled for 0,1,2 and 3.

Special Functions:
Use L10 to play the audio track "flapup", for example at 2 or 3 second intervals.

How it works:
Pulling momentary selects launch mode AND zoom mode. Zoom mode is selected by a sticky(L9) when the launch switch is pulled. This means that launch and zoom are both selected at the same time on pull of launch switch, but launch is higher priority and takes precedence. This stops an annoying problem of momentarily selecting FM0 during the switch release.
When the launch switch is released, flight mode zoom takes over because launch is not selected and the sticky L9 is still set asserting flight mode 2, zoom.
If the flaps are low (!L6) and you move the elevator in zoom (FM2) (L5) then L8 goes true. This sets sticky L10. At the same time moving the elevator in zoom (L5) clears sticky L9 that is selecting zoom mode. In english if you move the elevator in zoom with the flap stick down, L10 remembers this. PO Cruise is selected by L10. Moving the elevator also clears zoom mode. Now the highest priority mode is POCruise and it is selected.
If the flaps are pushed up, L6 goes true, making L10 clear, this deselects POCruise. Once L10 is clear FM1,2, and 3 are all clear and one of FM4,5,6 are selected and that takes over.

So moving the elevator in zoom (by an amount you can select, that's the 10 number), with the flaps down, clears zoom and selects pushover cruise. When you pull the flap stick up later the flight mode selected by the flight mode switch takes over, whatever it is.

Note that this makes it impossible to launch, zoom, pushover or switch to any flight mode after launch with the flaps down.


If the flaps are up during zoom, L10 is already clear so PO cruise can't be selected. When elevator occurs at pushover, L9, which is selecting zoom, is cleared, L10 which selects POCruise is already clear, so all that's left is one of the SB choices of speed, cruise and thermal.
In other words if you put the flaps up before or during launch and zoom, when you pushover you will be in your selected flight mode.

As before,this makes it impossible to launch, zoom, pushover or switch to any flight mode after launch with the flaps down.

Note that if you happen to land in speed or thermal and during launch you don't want to go directly to speed or thermal when you pushover, just leave the flap stick low and pushover in POCruise. Then when you have time, move the FM switch to the desired position, then push the flap stick up and the radio will transition directly from cruise to the desired flight mode.


There is an alternate version of this that allows for a 3 position camber switch in thermal mode. I'll put that one up if anyone is interested, and it will go in the document.


Attached is the epee for the 3 position camber switch version, see post #31.
Note this is for openTX 2.1.9.

--mickey
Last edited by mnowell129; Dec 28, 2016 at 10:23 PM. Reason: Added picture
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Nov 07, 2016, 10:54 AM
flying beam
blackmoon's Avatar
Even though I don't use a taranis, the rationale behind this and setup will be helpful.

Thank you for starting it.
Nov 07, 2016, 01:32 PM
Carboweave, Ask For It By Name
Chuchuf's Avatar
Mickey, is there an eepe for what you created for Jody? I'd like to look at it.

Terry
Nov 07, 2016, 01:56 PM
I'm not as bad as they say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuchuf
Mickey, is there an eepe for what you created for Jody? I'd like to look at it.

Terry
here
Note: this has the three position camber switch in thermal option.
Latest blog entry: AIrcraft I've built.
Nov 07, 2016, 05:43 PM
Ivan MacKenzie
imack's Avatar
Some good ideas here, thanks Mickey.

Ivan MacKenzie.
Nov 07, 2016, 06:35 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
I just ordered one so I imagine I'll soon have questions.

Thanks again, Mickey.
Nov 08, 2016, 08:02 AM
Carboweave, Ask For It By Name
Chuchuf's Avatar
Looks good Mickey. I'll give it a try. I assume this is for 2.0.** and not 2.1.**? I'm on 2.0.19 and have been relictant to step up to 2.1 because of the telemetry reprogramming needed plus 2.0 works well for me on DLG's. I switched a fried to 2.1 and liked it OK, but when it comes to software/firmware I tend to not change to much.
I've been running Extremewings eepe for about a year or so and it works good as well but you've done a few things a bit different that his (like the subtrims and curves for flaperons) which is something I generally modify.
I also like the idea of CruisePO activated by the elevator something I had been thinking of doing. I'm trying to think if there is any instance where elevator wouldn't take the program out of zoom mode? Like you do a turn and burn without a push over but I'm guess if you set the elevator trigger point low enough you will always have some elevator input?
The way I ran the other program was if you switched any flight mode it would come out of zoom. So generally I would have the switch in speed and as soon as I pushed over I would switch the flight mode to cruise.

Terry
Last edited by Chuchuf; Nov 08, 2016 at 08:11 AM.
Nov 08, 2016, 08:49 AM
I'm not as bad as they say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuchuf
Looks good Mickey. I'll give it a try. I assume this is for 2.0.** and not 2.1.**? I'm on 2.0.19 and have been relictant to step up to 2.1 because of the telemetry reprogramming needed plus 2.0 works well for me on DLG's. I switched a fried to 2.1 and liked it OK, but when it comes to software/firmware I tend to not change to much.
Yes 2.0.XX. I will get to 2.1 or 2.2 over the winter now that there is a break between contests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuchuf
I've been running Extremewings eepe for about a year or so and it works good as well but you've done a few things a bit different that his (like the subtrims and curves for flaperons) which is something I generally modify.
I fix the flaperons with the output curves on the servo screen now using the procedure in the document. Once you match the flaperons, correcting for any mechanical mismatch, you don't need subtrims anymore and all the mixing is really clean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuchuf
I also like the idea of CruisePO activated by the elevator something I had been thinking of doing. I'm trying to think if there is any instance where elevator wouldn't take the program out of zoom mode? Like you do a turn and burn without a push over but I'm guess if you set the elevator trigger point low enough you will always have some elevator input?
Yep, pretty hard to maneuver the airplane without moving the elevator so it makes getting stuck in zoom mode pretty unlikely.
Even then a quick blip of elevator will not upset the plane too much if you really had to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuchuf
The way I ran the other program was if you switched any flight mode it would come out of zoom. So generally I would have the switch in speed and as soon as I pushed over I would switch the flight mode to cruise.
Terry
This has the obvious problem of pushing over and flying in zoom until you do something else. The POC mode that I have had for a while at least switched to cruise mode after pushover.
As to the move the switch method, this is the way I started out a long time ago and have stayed with it. The obvious problem with this is that if you want speed mode after pushover you have to move the switch twice. Also sometimes you can move the switch too fast. Also a couple of us are moving the switch a little early, like around the time of pushover and missing the switch move. This wasn't a chronic problem but it happens once or twice a contest, enough to look for a solution. This version solves all of those problems.
Latest blog entry: AIrcraft I've built.
Nov 09, 2016, 01:51 PM
Registered User
So, if you move the elevator during the zoom phase (say to correct trajectory but still want to zoom and not push over), you loose the zoom mode?

Also, no dedicated landing mode or am I missing something?

Just curious.

Tom
Nov 09, 2016, 02:08 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
I almost never move my elevator to correct trajectory but that's a good question.

Usually my elevator correction is to pull more up and I always do that in the zoom phase by momentarily re-pulling the launch mode switch. Same for turn and burn type launches, I just hold the launch mode switch longer to facilitate a very gradual half loop over my head. Can I do that with this setup?
Nov 09, 2016, 06:56 PM
Registered User
dave102269's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiesling
So, if you move the elevator during the zoom phase (say to correct trajectory but still want to zoom and not push over), you loose the zoom mode?

Also, no dedicated landing mode or am I missing something?

Just curious.

Tom

Yes, you lose zoom mode if you exceed a certain amount of elevator. This is the "10" value that Mickey references in the original post:

"So moving the elevator in zoom (by an amount you can select, that's the 10 number), with the flaps down, clears zoom and selects pushover cruise."

You can make that number higher and you will be able to manipulate the elevator up to that new limit without exiting zoom.



No landing mode as it has been Overcome By Events. Per Mickey's original post,
"For landing/Quick turn you land in any mode you want S/C/T (speed cruise or thermal)."
Nov 09, 2016, 07:08 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave102269
Yes, you lose zoom mode if you exceed a certain amount of elevator. This is the "10" value that Mickey references in the original post:

"So moving the elevator in zoom (by an amount you can select, that's the 10 number), with the flaps down, clears zoom and selects pushover cruise."

You can make that number higher and you will be able to manipulate the elevator up to that new limit without exiting zoom.



No landing mode as it has been Overcome By Events. Per Mickey's original post,
"For landing/Quick turn you land in any mode you want S/C/T (speed cruise or thermal)."

So how do you deal with landing specific mixes for differential, aileron to rudder etc.? Having a landing mode makes this easy.


Tom
Nov 09, 2016, 07:09 PM
Registered User
dave102269's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz
I just hold the launch mode switch longer to facilitate a very gradual half loop over my head. Can I do that with this setup?
Yes, you can re-select launch mode with your momentary at anytime.

Another option would be to change the logic surrounding the "10" number referenced in the post above. Mickey may chime in here, but I'm pretty sure you can program it to only see down elevator. If done that way you could use up elevator during zoom mode without changing to pushover cruise.
Nov 09, 2016, 07:14 PM
I'm not as bad as they say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiesling
So how do you deal with landing specific mixes for differential, aileron to rudder etc.? Having a landing mode makes this easy.


Tom
You can have one if you want. Just move modes 4,5,6 to 5,6,7 and have 4 be landing selected by the logical switch.
But there are alternate ways to do this like having different mixes selected with the landing switch without having to make a mode out of it.
The advantage being you wont get a camber jump if you pull flaps in thermal mode, they will just come down from where they are.
Last edited by mnowell129; Nov 09, 2016 at 07:28 PM.
Nov 11, 2016, 09:12 AM
Carboweave, Ask For It By Name
Chuchuf's Avatar
Mickey,
Can you explain how you change the default 2:00 time in the timer to other values you have in the program. It looks like it's tied to S1 in the Logic but I can't see to get it to change.
Also if you don't want the timer on what do we do.

Nice program and excellent write up.

Terry
Last edited by Chuchuf; Nov 11, 2016 at 09:21 AM.


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