Hyperion G7 packs - RC Groups
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Nov 07, 2016, 03:40 AM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
Discussion

Hyperion G7 packs


I see Hyperion World and a couple of US resellers have the new G7 packs.

Anybody have any experience of these yet?

They claim 4.35V chemistry and "90C" but qualify that with a 45C claim for "full capacity". No idea what that is supposed to mean. It is possible they are a genuine HV 45C pack, but I would want to be convinced. Turnigy's Graphene can just scrape into the 45C class but they do it at 4.2V.

To be clear I regard a maximum continuous C rate as one where the pack:

1) Does not rise more than 50˚C in surface temperature
2) Does not drop below a cell voltage of 3.5V at the 50% discharge point
3) Holds at least 80% of rated capacity at that rate.
4) Shows no significant voltage dip and recovery in the first 20% of discharge due to self heating

I also note Hyperion Rocks has closed the RCGroups G6 thread. The G6 was a bit of a disaster I would have thought.

Any reliable test data welcome.

John
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Nov 07, 2016, 05:25 PM
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BobRCnut's Avatar
The new G7 packs are rated 90C Max.. Hyperion has apparently followed the lead and classified their new packs based on Maximum C rating, as everyone else does. The G7 packs are reported to use Silicon-Graphene chemistry. ALL e RC has them on their web site but they show as backordered, implying that they're in transit but not there yet.
Nov 08, 2016, 04:12 AM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
Just to make it clear.

I am well aware that vendors quote "Continuous" and "Maximum" C ratings. And that they all want to use Maximum as it caters to the ignorance of consumers who assume the label with the biggest number is the best pack.

My point is that these are meaningless terms created by the label writers.

What does "Maximum" C rate of 70C mean? For a 1000mAh pack it means a current of 70 Amps BUT
  • For how long? 1 mS, or 100mS or 1S or 10 sec?
  • At what temperature rise?
  • At what voltage drop?
  • At what capacity reduction?
  • Under what test conditions? A real pack or a single cell clamped between solid heat sinks?
  • For how many cycles can it be maintained?

All of these are critical to specify if you want to compare one pack with another.

I bet almost any modern LiPo formulation can do better than 70c if you dead short a single cell and keep the test brief enough.

"Full capacity" is more understandable. The pack should deliver at least the label mAh capacity at a 45C rate.

John
Quote:
Originally Posted by jj604
They claim 4.35V chemistry and "90C" but qualify that with a 45C claim for "full capacity". No idea what that is supposed to mean.
....
John
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRCnut
The new G7 packs are rated 90C Max.. Hyperion has apparently followed the lead and classified their new packs based on Maximum C rating, as everyone else does.
Nov 10, 2016, 04:15 PM
Builder & Pilot
GaryX1001's Avatar
subscribed

got an email today about the g7 from Hyperion, i have not had Problems with g6 so far, will watch this.
Nov 14, 2016, 01:08 AM
Registered User
Keen to see how these compare to Turnigy Graphene's
Nov 14, 2016, 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04hepmar
Keen to see how these compare to Turnigy Graphene's
These are a newer High-Voltage Si-Graphene cell technology, they do not use a 4.2v Graphene-only formula, so it's hard to compare cells.

The Hyperion G7 Si-Graphene operate @ 4.35v, so they have 10% more energy-density than standard LiPo.

@JJ604:The definition of "Cmax": *Continuous C-Rate for 100% rated capacity delivery is 1/2 C-Max rate. For example, a G5 2200mAh 60Cmax battery will provide a total of 2200mAh capacity if pulling a constant 30C draw.


Here is some more info regarding G7 HvLi Si-Graphene Batteries: http://www.hyperion-world.com/en/the...tage-batteries


http://www.hyperion-world.com/en/sea...g7&c=&so=price
Nov 14, 2016, 08:28 AM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
So just to be clear:

The performance of the G7 series is defined by Hyperion by the Continuous C rate. That is the maximum rate at which they will still continue to deliver 100% of the label capacity. There is no technical data that I can find about these packs but we have to assume that definition includes a specified maximum temperature rise and minimum voltage drop that are both acceptable in practice.

In other words the pack will deliver the constant C rate under practically useful conditions. So we can assume the "90C" labelled packs are genuine 45C packs. This seems just possible for a modern "graphene" formulation LiPo.

The rate quoted on the label is simply twice that figure. It has no basis in practice or testing. I am not saying that they won't deliver 90C for short bursts, I am simply saying this is a meaningless unverified number. This is not a specific criticism of Hyperion. Other vendors do exactly the same. At least the 90C burst figure seems realistic - unlike some other vendors.

John
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionRocks
@JJ604:The definition of "Cmax": *Continuous C-Rate for 100% rated capacity delivery is 1/2 C-Max rate. For example, a G5 2200mAh 60Cmax battery will provide a total of 2200mAh capacity if pulling a constant 30C draw.
Nov 15, 2016, 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jj604
So just to be clear:

The performance of the G7 series is defined by Hyperion by the Continuous C rate. That is the maximum rate at which they will still continue to deliver 100% of the label capacity. There is no technical data that I can find about these packs but we have to assume that definition includes a specified maximum temperature rise and minimum voltage drop that are both acceptable in practice.

In other words the pack will deliver the constant C rate under practically useful conditions. So we can assume the "90C" labelled packs are genuine 45C packs. This seems just possible for a modern "graphene" formulation LiPo.

The rate quoted on the label is simply twice that figure. It has no basis in practice or testing. I am not saying that they won't deliver 90C for short bursts, I am simply saying this is a meaningless unverified number. This is not a specific criticism of Hyperion. Other vendors do exactly the same. At least the 90C burst figure seems realistic - unlike some other vendors.

John

Current battery technology is around 45C max, Hyperion 90Cmax is a true 45C cell.

Here is some of our ISO testing procedures when we bench-test/flight-test a new battery:
85~90% Capacity is measured @ 3.0V (low-volt cutoff)
Internal Resistance Measurement: 45Celsius
Max Cell Temp. Never exceed: 55C~60Celsius


"Cmax" = 1/2 of "Cmax" will provide mAh capacity that's on the label.
For example, here are specs on our Hyperion Si-Graphene HvLi G7 3S 2400mAh 90Cmax battery:
Capacity @4.2V: 2300mah
Capacity @4.35V: 2400mah
Voltage: 3S, 11.4V nominal
Discharge Rate: 90Cmax (90C burst, 40~45C continuous)
Nov 15, 2016, 05:58 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionRocks
Current battery technology is around 45C max, Hyperion 90Cmax is a true 45C cell.
Discharge Rate: 90Cmax (90C burst, 40~45C continuous)
Ok, and how many times can the cell be discharged at 40c while still retaining over 80% capacity?
Once?
Twenty times?
Maybe 100?
Nov 15, 2016, 07:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinkslynx
Ok, and how many times can the cell be discharged at 40c while still retaining over 80% capacity?
Once?
Twenty times?
Maybe 100?
G7 bench-test exercise results:

20 cycles: 6C charging / 30C continuous discharge = <5% degradation of total capacity.
20 cycles IR Average/cell: 4.4ohms @45Celsius
50+ cycles: 6C charging / 30C continuous discharge = no signs of puffing

As you know this type of continuous high-rate discharge testing is very strenuous on any LiPo. We've seen 80~85%+ capacity retention @ 100~200+ cycles utilizing a "burst, rest" discharge method.

Cycle-life and capacity retention depends on how well you treat your batteries i.e., V cutoff, Temp., Discharge (burst & continuous), etc...
Last edited by HyperionRocks; Nov 15, 2016 at 07:37 AM.
Nov 16, 2016, 08:27 AM
Registered User
These packs seems to have a much better capacity/gram than other "graphene" packs on the market. That's what I am mostly drawn to when looking at batteries. So many people only compare batteries of equal capacity. But if we compare batteries of equal weights a G7 1800 mAH (claimed 179g on hyperion site) battery weighs the same as a 1300 mAH Turnigy Graphene (claimed 176g on hobbyking site). That is very attractive to me.

A 100 Amp punchout on a 1800 mAH battery will be drawing 55C while it would be drawing 76C on a 1300 mAH battery. I could be much less abusive to my batteries during high amp punchouts and have no weight penalty. Very nice. I think I might have to get a few of these to try out.
Nov 16, 2016, 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plur303
These packs seems to have a much better capacity/gram than other "graphene" packs on the market. That's what I am mostly drawn to when looking at batteries. So many people only compare batteries of equal capacity. But if we compare batteries of equal weights a G7 1800 mAH (claimed 179g on hyperion site) battery weighs the same as a 1300 mAH Turnigy Graphene (claimed 176g on hobbyking site). That is very attractive to me.

A 100 Amp punchout on a 1800 mAH battery will be drawing 55C while it would be drawing 76C on a 1300 mAH battery. I could be much less abusive to my batteries during high amp punchouts and have no weight penalty. Very nice. I think I might have to get a few of these to try out.
The G7 1800 HvLi Si-Graphene cells are equivalent size to the G5 1600mah cells.

With HvLi 4.35v you're able to squeeze-in approximately 10% more energy-to-weight when compared to normal 4.2v LiPo technology.
Last edited by HyperionRocks; Nov 16, 2016 at 11:55 AM.
Nov 16, 2016, 11:22 PM
4.2V of pure Kraut power
bzfrank's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionRocks
G7 bench-test exercise results:
What depth of discharge did you do for your test cycles? (in %)

Did you charge up to 4.35V / cell? I ask because the G6 were also labled at 4.35V / cell, but really using them at this voltage would damage them quite fast. I have a set of puffed G6 here as proof that did not last 10 cycles. Other G6 battery only charged to 4.2V/cell is doing still well however. There seems to be an instability in the electrolyte at higher Li vs Li+ voltages.
Nov 17, 2016, 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzfrank
What depth of discharge did you do for your test cycles? (in %)

Did you charge up to 4.35V / cell? I ask because the G6 were also labled at 4.35V / cell, but really using them at this voltage would damage them quite fast. I have a set of puffed G6 here as proof that did not last 10 cycles. Other G6 battery only charged to 4.2V/cell is doing still well however. There seems to be an instability in the electrolyte at higher Li vs Li+ voltages.
G6 is relatively old technology. G7 chemistry is much more stable at 4.35v high-voltage.

We have stored fully-charged 4.35v G7 cells for weeks and have not seen puffing, some of these cells have 50+ cycles. (*We recommend to store at 3.7v)

Visit our website and show us a copy of your receipt, and picture of your puff G6 pack and we'll send you a coupon for the amount of your purchase: http://www.hyperion-world.com/en/contact-us
Nov 17, 2016, 06:16 PM
tic
tic
thunderscreech
tic's Avatar
Why should I pony up for the G7 after being burned with the G6? It would be nice if AllERc would offer those of us who have useless G6 packs a deeply discounted G7 pack. The IR of my G6 cells are really high after just a dozen cycles. I babied the pack too, Never discharged below 50% capacity, always balanced and only ONCE charged to 4.35 V. Hyperion will have to earn my business back but hey, maybe they don't want it.. Too bad as everything else I own that says hyperion on it has worked great.