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Nov 02, 2016, 12:49 PM
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Build Log

TBD - The Vagabond - a Bill Winter's design


VAGABOND - A BILL WINTER'S, 1949 and 1981

The Vagabond has been on my todo list for sometime now and the current TBD has spurred me to get on and build one.

Bill Winter designed the Vagabond back in 1949 and then revisited the design in 1981 when he adapted it for RC. I will be building to the revisited plan which has a span of 75 no need to scale up and powering it with a brushless motor. An early B&W photo of the Vagabond shown below.

The design looks straight forward and I have started with the polyhedral wing. Photo shows the left wing almost built, ready for sheeting top D section. Once sheeting on and the leading edge sanded, the wing will be cut 2/3rds out to make the next dihedral break for the tip. Tips will be made detachable for ease of transport, the light 1/8th carbon joiners being just as light as making the fixed dihedral joints. Right hand wing will be next, once I have cleared the left and learnt from that.

John
Last edited by John38; Nov 02, 2016 at 06:29 PM.
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Nov 02, 2016, 02:37 PM
Curmudgeon in training!
flyerinokc's Avatar
If the span is only 75" isn't transportable in one piece or do you have some transport limitation I am not aware of?
Nov 02, 2016, 03:46 PM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
It is a handsome model John, I'll be watching with interest. Just one small correction though - the designer's name is Bill Winter - no "s".
Nov 02, 2016, 06:01 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancer
It is a handsome model John, I'll be watching with interest. Just one small correction though - the designer's name is Bill Winter - no "s".
I missed the apostrophe
Nov 02, 2016, 06:22 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyerinokc
If the span is only 75" isn't transportable in one piece or do you have some transport limitation I am not aware of?
UK cars not quite as big as American ones but I can get 75" straight in my car - the polyhedral complicates that as well as also loading my 72" fus of my big mamselle , the majestic major and the almost 6ft wing halves of the Bird Of Time. also makes it easier for storing in my workshop cellar.

At the recent Cocklebarrow meeting, I was fully loaded with models and 4 boxes of magazines to give away ( under duress to downsize my library ).
I didnt even have room for a well finished vintage model with a 40 4 stroke engine which I was offered free
The Bird in Time is an example - At a recent bring and buy, a BOT offered to me for 15 ($20) - complete with 4 servos Car was empty so BoT came home with me.
Lesson learned - always have room in car for more when going to vintage events.

John
Nov 02, 2016, 09:34 PM
Curmudgeon in training!
flyerinokc's Avatar
I can relate John! I can fit a 84" wing in my SUV but much more than that and I'm in trouble. My seats fold down so that helps. Storage is another nightmare. I have room for a single PVC pipe mounted to the ceiling in the garage (Overflowing of course). No room available on any of the walls. My son's Civil Air Patrol may inherit my 1/5th scale SIG J-3 Cub with CAP insignia so I can make room for what I am building. I build on a piece of 1/2" thick drywall on a card table tucked into a close right now.
Nov 03, 2016, 04:41 AM
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rchopper56's Avatar
The Vagabond drawing and construction were first published in the August issue of Air Trails, 1945.
Don't understand why it is called the 1949 Vagabond.

I do have this issue and will create a PDF file of it hopefully before the end of the year. Mean while I am working on a well known pattern model form 1965 which is taking up all of my time.

Gene
Nov 03, 2016, 08:24 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rchopper56
The Vagabond drawing and construction were first published in the August issue of Air Trails, 1945.
Don't understand why it is called the 1949 Vagabond.

I do have this issue and will create a PDF file of it hopefully before the end of the year. Mean while I am working on a well known pattern model form 1965 which is taking up all of my time.

Gene
The Vagabond plan on Outerzone is the one published in the 1949 Ian Allen publication "Model Aviation" and is clearly labelled "Vagabond 1949 version by Bill Winter". This waspresented as a F/F model of course, and just how this differs from the version published in 1945 in Air Trails, if at all, I don't know. There was, of course, yet a further iteration of the Vagabond with changes to the nose profile in particular and adaptations for rudder/ele/throttle R/C shown published in Model Airplane News in September 1981 and styled as "Vagabond Revisited".
Last edited by Sundancer; Nov 03, 2016 at 08:58 AM.
Nov 03, 2016, 08:39 AM
Curmudgeon in training!
flyerinokc's Avatar
Bill Winter would have retained ownership after the plans published in 1945 and depending on his agreement could have published the design unchanged in 1949. You see that a lot in magazine articles, its a standard practice.
Nov 03, 2016, 09:40 AM
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rchopper56's Avatar
Sundancer,

I haven't studied the 1945 publication yet but it appears to exactly like the 1949 publication. The difference is the 1945 publication has the construction article.

Gene
Nov 03, 2016, 11:52 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
I've got the article and full size parts pages from the 1949 publication, I'll look them out and scan them later this evening. I didn't realise that you did the re-drawn version of the 1949 version which appears as the "supplement" on the download page on OZ, not having looked I just assumed the supplement was the article.
Nov 03, 2016, 12:37 PM
Curmudgeon in training!
flyerinokc's Avatar
I like the classic lines of the Vagabond but isn't the Bill Winter Vagabond from 1949 just an enlarged version of the Charles Ziehl 42" Vagabond published in MAN November 1943? I noticed both appear to be electric in the original designs.
Nov 03, 2016, 01:37 PM
Curmudgeon in training!
flyerinokc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyerinokc
I like the classic lines of the Vagabond but isn't the Bill Winter Vagabond from 1949 just an enlarged version of the Charles Ziehl 42" Vagabond published in MAN November 1943? I noticed both appear to be electric in the original designs.
After reading the build articles and going over both sets of plans the differences are glaringly easy to see. The Bill Winter design is all stick built fuselage while the Charles Ziehl fuselage uses a building crutch and formers. The outline is the same but under the skin they are totally two different animals. After reading how they fly I can't help but wonder the fight I would have on my hands to get either airplane to land in our typical Oklahoma winds. They float better than gliders!
Nov 03, 2016, 02:32 PM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyerinokc
I like the classic lines of the Vagabond but isn't the Bill Winter Vagabond from 1949 just an enlarged version of the Charles Ziehl 42" Vagabond published in MAN November 1943? I noticed both appear to be electric in the original designs.
Er - Apart from the fact that both have round wing tips and the same name I can see no similarity between them at all. I also don't understand the comment about ",,,both appear to be electric in the original designs". Not in 1943, or 1945 or 1949 they weren't. Practical electric power was still many years in the future then.
Nov 03, 2016, 03:44 PM
Registered User
Ye Gods - I've started a debating society and not a build log

its good to see the interest the old crates create - keep it up

My model will be built on the revisited plan but will include some aspects from the 1945/9 plan - eg, I will use the undercambered aerfoil section from the 45/9 plan as I will be flying to height and then glide rather than RC sport flying - give or take a few low slow flypasts when the weather is right ( not often). No idling four stroke to listen to with abrushless motor up front.

must get back to the building board

john


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