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Sep 14, 2016, 02:46 PM
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Sopwith F.1 Camel


This odd bit of , what I believe to be a factory (or other "official") interior elevation, came from a long forgotten book from Campbell, CA Public Library , early 1970's. Thought it might be good starting point for Camel thread. There's some slight image distortion, but correctable with known dimensions, such as chord, gap, and overall length, height, etc.
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May 20, 2019, 12:09 PM
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The PIPE's Avatar

My Replicraft Sopwith Camel drawings arrived today...


Dear packardpursuit:

The PIPE Here...well, the third (and planned-on "last") set of "investments" in those much sought-after Jim Kiger Replicraft drawings of Allied WW I fighters flown by American pilots from a century ago, arrived today (May 20, 2019)...for the Sopwith F.1 Camel !

It WILL be a while before I can get to them for scanning & Corel Photo-Paint 64-bit-based "stitching-together" of the scanned "panels" for each of its six sheets, to bring those together in their "entirety"...but they ARE here now, so in addition to the W.E. Titus drawings on the Dolphin, two "denizens of the Flying Zoo of Sir T.O.M. Sopwith" have their documentation here at home for eventual transformation into CAD-done model construction drawings.

And there could even be...should the Windows 7 64-bit scanner driver for my HP Scanjet 3C no longer work in Windows 10 X64...a summertime purchase of an even larger-"platen-ed", B-sized 11 x 17" flatbed, USB-connection scanner from the Plustek firm...their A320L color flatbed scanner model...that is very likely going to be taking the HP scanner's place beside my desktop PC, by the time summer's over.

For now, I've got some personal things to get to this week...I'm just glad to have the Replicraft drawings on the Camel.

Yours Sincerely,
The PIPE....!!
May 20, 2019, 09:19 PM
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Have you looked at VueScan software? They have drivers to let most any scanner work with Win10 ( or linux, depending on version) thru their software. The price is a lot less than a bigger scanner would be. Take a look at https://www.hamrick.com/
May 21, 2019, 09:22 AM
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The PIPE's Avatar

In fact, I'm ALREADY using it...<;^)) !!


Dear georgeg:

The PIPE Here again - I've been using the fully paid-for and registered version of Hamrick Software's VueScan for a good quartet of years already, and nowadays with Windows 10 X64 as my operating system for my desktop PC, it's worked perfectly with three flatbed scanners - the "SCSI" (I ALWAYS pronounce that acronym as "sek-see") interface HP ScanJet 3C (my own purchase since new) and ScanJet 4C (a gift from my now-late CAD mentor, who passed in late 2017), as well as my first-and-still-only USB-connection one, the letter sized "case-top" scanner in my Epson XP-520 "all-in-one" color inkjet printer.

It's mostly the much more recent "challenge" of continuing to use the Windows 7 64-bit scanner driver for my SCSI card, an Adaptec 29320LPE, that's worked perfectly for a few years now with the ScanJets, with all theWin-10 X64 updates from Microsoft. It wasn't very long ago (about six months, I'd have to guess) before the Adaptec-provided Win-7 64-bit driver seemingly ceased to allow my SCSI card to be able to operate the 4C. As the ScanJet 4C WAS a "gifted-to-yours-truly" scanner, I've NO idea how heavily it had been used since it was new. Since it's now no longer possible to easily get the 4C scanner working...the 3C scanner IS one I've had since I purchased it "brand-new" in 1996, and has more than likely not seen anywhere near as "heavy" a usage level as the 4C very likely did, wherever IT had been before I owned it...I'm simply hoping for some time over the Memorial Day weekend to try the 3C once more, and if it no longer works as well, then there's only a short timeframe that will exist before I will HAVE to get the Plustek A320L, a large-format, B-sized USB interface flatbed scanner that's priced almost the same as my ScanJet 3C was 20+ years ago, with the A320L ITSELF being listed at Hamrick Software's site as being operable with VueScan!

Anyway, thanks for the advice...with the Plustek, that would be "flatbed scanner number FOUR" that I've used with VueScan, with CorelDRAW Graphics Suite X7 (the 64-bit version!) to manage my raster-scans.

Thanks again and Yours Sincerely,
The PIPE....!!
Last edited by The PIPE; May 21, 2019 at 09:33 AM.
Jun 16, 2019, 01:29 AM
N = R* fp ne fl fi f
Azoic's Avatar
If it's going to be a Camel thread, let's get it some wire and canvas Dromedary action.....
Some scale drawings to make your rigging correct. Simple and easy to follow....
I wonder, did the designer's family make wire...?????
A reasonable 3 view and profiles set included aswell.
Links to Windsock Datafiles 06 and 26 and Profile Publications.
And a ZIP of the 3-view files

F1 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/qja1ejrrrn...Camel.zip?dl=0
F1 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/4pm9gsb4rf...%20F1.zip?dl=0
2F1 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/4pm9gsb4rf...%20F1.zip?dl=0
Jun 16, 2019, 11:47 AM
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Thread OP
Azoic,
Your contribution greatly appreciated. Lots to look at. Since I'm really into the nuts, bolt's and wires, I say THANK YOU!
Jun 16, 2019, 12:41 PM
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Thread OP
What was the span of the Camel's upper wing (both wings actually)???

According to official rigging notes ( provided by Azoic), the span is given as 26'-11". However, according to Profile Publication 31, and other sources, the span most often given as 28'-0". Now, as I calculate it (only had to take off one of my shoes!) there's a 13" mystery......

IIRC, Ian Stair once mentioned , that according o his research, the official span was sometimes listed at 27'11", but that was measured at the extremities of the upper rear spar. He wondered if the many examples of squared off (cropped looking) aileron tips, drawn by so many, were because of that particular information. He further speculated that a slight rounding, by 1/2" beyond the rear spar, of the aileron tips works quite well at achieving 28' even, for the overall span.

BTW, the color three view from PP#31 shows cropped aileron tips, which IMHO do not distinctively feature in period photos. I personally think Mr. Stair's understanding is correct.
Last edited by packardpursuit; Jun 16, 2019 at 12:47 PM. Reason: add 3-view
Jun 16, 2019, 04:15 PM
N = R* fp ne fl fi f
Azoic's Avatar
Ok....can-o-worms time......
Datafile 6 for the 2F1 with Ian Stairs inked 3-views, with NO DIMENSIONS has a table at the end listing 26'11" for the top wing. This SEEMS to be the concensus in ALL the documentation I can find for the 2F1. It lists the F1 as the same span, but I have documentation that says both dimensions you mentioned.
Datafile 26 for the F1 has the top wing on the 3-view listed as 28' over the wings at the rear spar and 28' 3/4" at the aileron.

The simplest solution I have used with success in the past, was to work on an average of 27 foot for the top wing. It makes 1/4 scale 81inch span. So it scrapes in on the American GIANT scale size (80inch), and MORE than fits giant in F4C in Australia ( it used to be 66 inches for biplane top wingspan, but it might be different now ). Unfortunately, I don't have one to measure to get a definitive answer on span...all I do know is they fly great @ 1/3rd scale, a bit hard to store and transport, but they fly great.....

And just to make your life even more confusing.....the Sopwith Comic, the Camel based Zepplin blowerer upperer, was a HIGHLY modified Camel (F.1/3) designation and it has the SAME wing as the Camel but it's 8.53m span, which in old money works out at 27' 9" span......so pick a number between one and ten......and close your eyes, draw some lines and build to that.....it looks very much like the way Sopwith did business.......
Last edited by Azoic; Jun 16, 2019 at 04:42 PM.


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