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Nov 24, 2016, 03:56 AM
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Good luck with your kickstarter campaign.
Be aware that emlid reach is already here and provide the same chipset m8t + extint function to trigger waypoint.
I think 3900$ is far away too much ....
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Nov 24, 2016, 04:07 AM
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Thanks for the feedback, please read the documentation.

We will be providing a complete DUAL frequency GPS system, not a single frequency board that you have to write a program for, make a housing, create an app, order a case and prove it works.

We are not providing an M8T chip set in our hardware. We will release the specs and brand on the receiver when we have made our final decision (likely shortly after the Kickstarter launch)

The M8T was used in the chart as a proof of concept and what it told us is that the M8T is not practical for any type of survey work unless you have time to wait a minimum 10-15 minutes at each gcp.

Also a waypoint trigger has nothing to do with OBS. That is for people who think they can use M8T receivers to geotag photos accurately on a drone..... and you can't... we tried it more for fun knowing it would not work.

Feel free to contact us directly or on the forum, I will be glad to provide more information.





Quote:
Originally Posted by kikislater View Post
Good luck with your kickstarter campaign.
Be aware that emlid reach is already here and provide the same chipset m8t + extint function to trigger waypoint.
I think 3900$ is far away too much ....
Last edited by saabguyspg; Nov 24, 2016 at 10:30 AM.
Nov 24, 2016, 07:24 AM
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Oh ok, my bad ><
I have not well read the paper for dual frequency !
Nov 24, 2016, 10:27 AM
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All good! And these are questions that others will have too. So I am glad you asked.

If you add up the cost of hardware only plus injection mold, battery, case, programming and app dev, shipping and support there is little to nothing left.

What we want to do is capture the market with a great product, then after Kickstarter sales begin to generate profits yet still improve the product.

Ideally we have quite a few sold on Kickstarter and that would really give us the power to make a killer product.

We are also trying to utilize known North American companies that have a reputation for quality especially when it comes to the receiver board and antennas.

I hope this explains some of the costs associated with this type of product.
Nov 24, 2016, 11:09 AM
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As a cost comparison please see this chart. Remember that Propeller is single frequency, needs to be left in place for 30 minutes, does not have a base station so you have to be inside a network, you have to pay a subscription and go back to get your targets. Also you can only lay as many targets as you buy and or feel like driving around to remote areas. I also can't remember the last time I had a nice flat 2' square place to put one of these things.

We survey river beds, mountains, valleys etc... not parking lots
Last edited by saabguyspg; Nov 24, 2016 at 11:15 AM.
Nov 24, 2016, 11:20 AM
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Dave Pitman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by saabguyspg View Post
As a cost comparison please see this chart. Remember that Propeller is single frequency, needs to be left in place for 30 minutes, does not have a base station so you have to be inside a network, you have to pay a subscription and go back to get your targets. Also you can only lay as many targets as you buy and or feel like driving around to remote areas. I also can't remember the last time I had a nice flat 2' square place to put one of these things.

We survey river beds, mountains, valleys etc... not parking lots
I thought you confirmed that with OBS and a dji drone, the process would include setting targets that could be identified and used in post processing (seen from the air in photos)? Perhaps you are suggesting that the targets are of a nature (paint or paper) that can be one time use, left in place? But targets would still be part of the process, correct?
Nov 24, 2016, 11:26 AM
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Yes with any drone that does not have onboard direc geo referencing (any DJI drone including M600 RTK, ebee non RTK, Kespry etc.) you will need to "place ground control"

In the case of OBS you simply paint an X on the ground, place OBS on the X, connect to OBS via blue tooth and name the point as a GCP or check shot then log RAW data in place. After that you stop logging and save the point, then move onto the next painted X. If I have my way it will have on board accelererometers which will stop logging when it "feels" that it has been picked up.... how cool would that be? We will add the sensors for it but I this will be a firmware upgrade in the future (free of course)

What this means is you don't have to go back and pick up targets. Now if you really want super accuracy then you could place a target then put OBS on your target but then you have to go back and get the target which really sucks.

We have done so many jobs with painted X's or for GCP with a white circle in the middle and attained excellent accuracy we have not taken targets with us for over two years, unless we are trying to prove accuacy of our RTK / PPK stryder drone.

What we do is paint an X in orange, then put a dot of white in the middle. Survey the centre of the white dot then that is your GCP.

Why the white dot? Having this white dot will over expose the photo and make the center of the X very easy to locate pefectly.

For check shots we skip the X and use a white circle (which is essentially just spraying the paint in a "dot" on the ground) Check shots should be placed between GCP's as far away from the GCP as possible to know your true accuracy.

Does that answer your question?

Steve


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Pitman View Post
I thought you confirmed that with OBS and a dji drone, the process would include setting targets that could be identified and used in post processing? Perhaps you are suggesting that the targets are of a nature (paint or paper) that can be one time use, left in place? But targets would still be part of the process, correct?
Last edited by saabguyspg; Nov 24, 2016 at 11:32 AM.
Nov 24, 2016, 11:43 AM
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Dave Pitman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by saabguyspg View Post
Yes with any drone that does not have onboard direc geo referencing (any DJI drone including M600 RTK, ebee non RTK, Kespry etc.) you will need to "place ground control"

In the case of OBS you simply paint an X on the ground, place OBS on the X, connect to OBS via blue tooth and name the point as a GCP or check shot then log RAW data in place. After that you stop logging and save the point, then move onto the next painted X. If I have my way it will have on board accelererometers which will stop logging when it "feels" that it has been picked up.... how cool would that be? We will add the sensors for it but I this will be a firmware upgrade in the future (free of course)

What this means is you don't have to go back and pick up targets. Now if you really want super accuracy then you could place a target then put OBS on your target but then you have to go back and get the target which really sucks.

We have done so many jobs with painted X's or for GCP with a white circle in the middle and attained excellent accuracy we have not taken targets with us for over two years, unless we are trying to prove accuacy of our RTK / PPK stryder drone.

What we do is paint an X in orange, then put a dot of white in the middle. Survey the centre of the white dot then that is your GCP.

Why the white dot? Having this white dot will over expose the photo and make the center of the X very easy to locate pefectly.

For check shots we skip the X and use a white circle (which is essentially just spraying the paint in a "dot" on the ground)

Does that answer your question?

Steve
Yes, nicely. Thanks !

Sorry, but please don't assume I know anything. I have quite a bit of MR operational exp. but no survey experience beyond the first step of capture and learning post processing.

Granular detail, while 'old hat' to many is essential for those of us learning. I would advise that over time, you create yourself some sort of FAQ or wiki that you can refer future beginners to. Probably all the data exists online if you know where to look. But what you are doing is pushing the envelope. You have to give some of us a detailed cook book.

I have worked in construction for longer than I want to admit. And survey plats still hold some mystery for me. For example if I ask a typical surveyor where I live what the lat/long coordinates for a corner are, they just look at me like I asked them how to get to Mars. My exerience with gps is with regard to traveling in the back country, and navigation. Not land survey.

Thanks for your patience, Steve !
Nov 24, 2016, 11:50 AM
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Thread OP
Dave that is great feedback and I totally get where you are coming from. There is so much "lingo" and essentially a lot of people want to throw fancy words at you so that you walk away confused.

I want to do the opposite. I come from a non surveying background and had to learn all this from books and field experience. Then I connected with my surveying engineers who helped me learn a whole lot more.

I constantly try to get my partner to keep it simple in explanations but it seems I have not been doing so myself.

Honestly if you have any questions about surveying etc. this is a great place to ask. If I don't know the answer I will get it for you.

If there are terms I use that you don't know please feel free to ask either in the forum or via email.

It is the goal of this project to take away all the "Smoke and mirrors" when it comes to surveying simple ground points and if you don't think to yourself "I can do that, it seems really easy" then I am failing at my job



We will add a FAQ to the Kickstarter page. Apparenlty we can't add it until after we go live.

I think though what you are asking for is FAQ in simple terms about how surveying works etc?

Maybe I should start something at the beginning of this thread.

Steve
Nov 24, 2016, 12:01 PM
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Thread OP
Ok that reminded me wow is my first page way out of date... I think I will dedicate this thread to OBS because I think the Stryder information is confusing the situation.
Last edited by saabguyspg; Nov 24, 2016 at 12:12 PM.
Nov 24, 2016, 12:16 PM
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Dave Pitman's Avatar
Regarding a FAQ,

I'm not suggesting you write down everything about surveying which is not really feasible. And for many things in your explanations you could just link to somewhere else like Wikipedia for general facts like RTK.

But detailed suggested workflows with your equipment would be fantastic. Guys that already know most of it can scan it quickly to see if something jumps out out them. And beginners like me don't have to fill in the blanks or get an inaccurate impression of what is involved. I would be happy to be your guinea pig to feedback if something isn't clear, lol. I believe good FAQ editors often use people unfamiliar with the subject to test the FAQ in this regard because it is so easy for someone knowledgeable enough in the subject to write the FAQ to not recognize a simple thing that will trip up someone not knowledgeable, if that makes sense.

Regarding general survey questions, one does come to mind and it relates to my last post. If you look at a survey plot, you will see boundary lines like:

N 38* 21' 00" W
and an intersecting line:
N 73* 32' 20" E

I have looked for utilities online for some way to generate a simple lan/long at the intersection of those lines without success. I have asked surveyors and that's when I get the "Mars" look as if either they don't really understand what I want, or they just don't know how to get that #.

I'm just looking for a way to easily navigate to the general location, not pin point accuracy. Where I live, many of these intersections are in deep woods and locating a corner can be a challenge.

If you can point me to somewhere to understand more about what the boundary line #s mean, than would be great too!
Nov 24, 2016, 12:23 PM
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Dave Pitman's Avatar
example from above.
Nov 24, 2016, 12:25 PM
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Dave Pitman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by saabguyspg View Post
Ok that reminded me wow is my first page way out of date... I think I will dedicate this thread to OBS because I think the Stryder information is confusing the situation.
I would agree that 2 threads would be better.
Nov 24, 2016, 12:25 PM
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Thread OP
So those are "reference bearing angles" which are simply telling you at what angle the line on that map is relative to north.

I know they look like the could almost be Lat Long numbers which can also follow the "Deg Minutes Seconds" format but taking both of those numbers won't give you a location... hence the strange looks but it's an easy explanation if they took a moment for you and a good question IMHO.

I don't see any co-ordinates on that drawing which will give you a location. Likely somewhere on the drawing will be a Legal Land description telling you what parcel of land that is on.

See attached, look at the bearing one on the right and see how they use N W E etc.

Steve
Last edited by saabguyspg; Nov 24, 2016 at 12:41 PM.
Nov 24, 2016, 10:22 PM
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Dave Pitman's Avatar
Ok I understand. I gathered that they were bearing lines from a known point or marker. Problem for me is the known marker never seems to have coordinates. I get that when surveying was devloped guys didn't have the technology to establlish coordinates like can be done now. It just seems like it would make commom sense that since the tech exists now, there would be at least one plotted coordiate on a modern survey plot. But I guess not.

BTW, the plot that I posted was arbitrary.

Thanks Steve!


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