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Aug 20, 2016, 03:35 PM
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Phoenix Waco F5C


Hey there,
Is anyone building or flying the Phoenix Waco yet? Any advice on CG and such? I have an electric version ready to go, but no time to fly yet. : (
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Aug 21, 2016, 08:18 PM
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Thank you for posting this or I would have never known this existed, wish I could help on the CG but cannot. Please post photos of motor and battery install, also the brand and size of motor used, if not to much trouble. I am very interested in this plane, my favorite model is the Dynam Waco.

Thank you
Ken Smith
Aug 22, 2016, 04:36 PM
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I've been unable to upload any photos yet. My phone doesn't seem to want to talk to my windows 10 computer. Not sure how to get around this.
It's a chunk of a plane, even before the power setup gets installed. Seems pretty solid and should work well with a gas engine. I went electric and my testing shows that I should get at least five minutes of flight time, probably even a couple of minutes more using the Rimfire 80 motor with a Castle Creations Edge 100 amp ESC, turning a 15x8 Zoar electric prop on a 6s 45c 5500ma battery. It's pulling about 78 -80 amps fully charged and goes down to the upper 60's at around 3.5 volts per cell under load. ESC runs fine and has excellent ventilation mounted in the recessed area built in for a muffler. Maxed out at 155 degrees and averaged 134 degrees.
According to the ESC's software, the motor is turning just under 9400 rpm at first, then about 8800 at the end of the run. It pulls about 59 amps with a 15x6 Zoar. I will fly it with the 8 pitch first to see if I want to try the 6 pitch later. Want to make sure that I have the extra grunt on the maiden and the 8 pitch definitely out pulls the 6. On the 8 pitch the motor got up to about 147 degrees running it for about 6 minutes while holding the plane static, and at 75 degrees room temp. I was using varying throttle settings that averaged 63 percent power for the session. Temp was taken off of the back end of the motor that does not rotate, with the Spektrum temp sensor. Motor is getting very good ventilation and I think it will work fine, but one could probably go up to the 120 rimfire or other bigger motor if desired because the nose is light. Battery compartment will accommodate 2 batteries probably for higher voltage. This is a good sized plane and I have no idea how much this thing weighs with my setup, but like I said, it's a chunk.
I had to add 2 full packages of lead weights in the cowl for CG. Battery weighs in at about 800 grams and sits all of the way forward, and is in front of the CG. I am using a 2200ma lipo receiver battery for control power also. I like to run a big electric plane this way. No BEC to worry about. I mounted my receiver right on top of the receiver battery. Didn't see any better options on how to mount the receiver. It is a Spektrum AR635 with an extra remote antenna. Needed it to be as close to the CG as possible, and that was on top of the receiver battery. Being an electric setup, I think this will work out ok for the as3x stabilization. My range testing looked to be just fine too with the extra antenna.
The decals aren't the best. I think the N numbers are too large, and the fuselage side striping on each end of the N numbers looks to be too large of a scale too. I have not installed them for those reasons, and will wait to see how it flies before thinking about getting hold of Callie graphic or something. It looks great without them anyway, and the covering was installed quite nicely.
I went with Dubro wheels. The provided ones were not as good in my opinion, but that's not uncommon with an ARF.
Hopefully someone will pop in with pics and flying info soon. We may get to maiden it this coming weekend if my son doesn't decide to fly us to the coast and back for some cross country time. : )
Last edited by redbarn; Aug 22, 2016 at 10:47 PM. Reason: Said battery was just behind CG. It's in front of it.
Aug 22, 2016, 10:01 PM
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That is some report, I will write more tomorrow.
I wanted to show you this, you can use the eagle it is at Callie, next time I want to remove the chin, make it more streamline.

Thanks, Ken
Last edited by Ken Smith; Aug 22, 2016 at 10:07 PM.
Aug 22, 2016, 11:03 PM
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That's a neat look for your Waco Ken. Well, my son and I got real enthused and flew the Waco tonight. It was a little hairy at first but my son came through like a pro and kept her airborne. It seems pretty nose heavy. Used all of the up trim to get her level. A little aileron trim and some left rudder too. Looks way cool flying by. Will move the CG aft some for next flight. Has plenty of power. That isn't a concern at all now. Has lots of airspeed with the 15x8. Pretty pleased with it so far. Flew it for six and a half minutes and came down with 3.9 volts per cell. We didn't hot rod it much though. Wish I had video. Maybe next time. We installed a camera mount in the forward cockpit for my sons' Garmin camera. It will tell us how fast it's going and all too.
Aug 22, 2016, 11:06 PM
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Oh yeah, the motor temp was only only 100 degrees when it landed. Outside temp was maybe 75 or so. A very nice evening.
Aug 23, 2016, 05:52 AM
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Good news, on the CG do you think it was off from your setup or you are thinking that the manual had it nose heavy to be safe? Is that what caused the hairy first flight? At 3.9V you had some time left which is good. Are going to try the 15 X 6 prop? Any idea of the Walt you are pulling
I was happy to hear that the decals were left off at the factory.

Ken
Aug 23, 2016, 08:18 AM
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The CG suggested by the factory seems to be off for this plane of mine at least. Elevators had to be trimmed all of the way up for level flight. The plane took a quick dive when the elevators were released to the neutral position right after take off. Probably more hairy for me standing there watching than my son who was piloting it. : ) The ESC is saying that the motor pulled 1735 watts with a fully charged battery, and that was taken while being held on the ground. I think the 15x8 is what I will leave on the plane, but I'm pretty sure a 15x6 would fly it ok. Maybe I'll try it once after we get all of the adjustments done.
Aug 23, 2016, 11:51 AM
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I am pretty sure that the motor cannot produce that wattage without burning up.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXLWV7&P=M.
It is rated 1175 watts max. As far as the CG goes yours, mine they should be all tha same. Which wheels do you foam or the low bounce.
Keep working on it.

Ken
Aug 24, 2016, 05:23 PM
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Just regular Dubro rubber ones. Burst wattage is 2200 watts for this motor. It really does seem quite happy, and most of the time it's just cruising around nice and easy. Got to fly it again yesterday for 2 more flights. Motor came down showing 100 degrees. We were flying it slow a lot. Flies pretty good at slow speeds with a fairly stable stall. Still nose heavy after removing six ounces of lead out of the nose. Helped take some up trim out of it but still needed quite a bit. I'm removing the other six for the next flight. Takes a lot of lead to move the CG much on this thing.
Aug 24, 2016, 07:26 PM
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I'm sure it will fly ok if you were to only feel comfortable with a 15x6 prop. Would keep the amps in the range that is recommended pretty much. Otherwise it's going to be a different motor, which will work I'm sure. Looks like it may end up nose heavy with a bigger motor and batteries weighing any more than 800 grams or so together. Would need some lead in the tail or some creativity with the batteries, etc. I could slide my battery back maybe up to 2 inches, but it's nice to have it away from the receiver area some when you're sliding in your batteries.
Aug 24, 2016, 07:28 PM
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Lighter wheels may be of some use too, if you find some that don't mind the weight of this bird.
Aug 24, 2016, 08:11 PM
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Are you still using the recommended CG? On the Dynam Waco they were saying 75mm from the LE we ended up at 90mm. May we should ask someone in the group. What is the widest point of the wing outside the cabanas? I will ask.
Nice install on the motor. Can you remove the nose weight and slide the batteries back? Hate to see you add weight to the tail.
I am hoping to use batteries that weight 858 grams but if needed I will go lighter. I always fly slow, it is a Waco after all.
Thanks for the photos.

Ken. Mine is coming UPS, next week
Aug 24, 2016, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by redbarn
Here's a few pics I managed to get on here finally.

Great photos. Looking to see more as I'm thinking about this for xmas this year.


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