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Sep 06, 2004, 09:59 AM
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Michael Heer's Avatar

Carbon Falcon... a Winner III


Thread Number 2 has gone way beyond the recommended 500 posts so it is being closed and this new thread to continue the adventure is being opened with a link back to the previous thread. Moderator Mike
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Sep 08, 2004, 12:38 AM
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hardlock's Avatar
I'm proud to announce that a review has just come out in Novembers issue of Fly RC mag. Check it out if you see it on the rack.

Also, I just got word that someone is flying their CF with a TP 2100 pack and dual EPS. He hasn't replied to my suggestions but needless to say, this is like putting a 480 in a GWS Tiger Moth. It CAN be done but shouldn't be!
Sep 08, 2004, 07:14 AM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Boz:
The 23T/26g I'm flying on 2s is great, with the speed mods I've incorporated... The tuck rods and the speed bra really help for consistant control. The 25T from Len's would be very similar, but can be flown with 3s and a smaller prop for more speed, or a 9x4HD for more more thrust. I think he's using 28g, but not sure...

BTW, I added the tuck rods to a buddy's CF this weekend, and since we were out of .080" rod, I used .125 tube... worked fine, and straightened out the problems he was having. The cg did need to move forward...

I need more suggestions for something to help keep orientation. For some reason, I get disorientented quite often on mine. Might be the color, but not sure. I thought the yellow speed bra would help, and has, some, but I think maybe some reflective stripes or something may help. The yellow tends to disappear.
Sep 08, 2004, 12:12 PM
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bosley's Avatar
Thanks for the suggestions on the motor. I will look into some kits from go brushless once they are back in action.

Boz
Sep 08, 2004, 12:31 PM
Registered User

CF issue need help...


I have a CF & using an IPS A motor with an 860 2 cell Lipoly & a GWS pico reciever... (Should be light & powerful?) But I can't make the thing fly spectacularly... It does fly but the wingtips are quite upturned just to fly level & mostly just fight for altitude & when I do a roll or loop I'm basically close to the ground again. If I fight for altitude it turns on me so I'm playing the CG balancing game between being nose heavy which makes climbing more difficult or tip stalling on climb if I'm too tail-heavy.

When I hold the plane vertical indoors it almost wants to kinda 3D in my hands so it seems to have plenty of power for the weight...

I can fly 20+ min on an 860 battery but I'm fighting it more than I want to. Thinking of trying my LensRC CDROM motor but it really seems to have enough power already...

Thanks,
Jim
Sep 08, 2004, 02:00 PM
Registered User
hardlock's Avatar
Measure the tips at center trim as described in the manual. If at 2.25" you're fine there. They look up alot but that is where the planes stability comes from.

If you can loop and/or roll it, then you've got the CG back enough for full control and yes, you'll loose altitude from those stunts. The IPS motor won't "fly spectacularly" but will give good all around flying. Think brushless for that. Oh and use a 9x7 SF prop, not a 10x4.7 SF on it with that motor.

Keep us informed.
Sep 08, 2004, 05:35 PM
Easy, Tex
Python75's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Bond
Boz:
I need more suggestions for something to help keep orientation. For some reason, I get disorientented quite often on mine. Might be the color, but not sure. I thought the yellow speed bra would help, and has, some, but I think maybe some reflective stripes or something may help. The yellow tends to disappear.
I was having the same problem with my red CF. I had bought extra trim strips, so I cut a black strip roughly in half across the shortest dimension at the angle of the leading edge. I applied the trim in two side by side stripes on the right wing tip.

It looks pretty nice along with the standard V trim, and has almost completely fixed my orientation problems.

Now, if someone can point me to instructions on how to post a picture...
Last edited by Python75; Sep 09, 2004 at 01:15 PM.
Sep 08, 2004, 05:44 PM
Registered User
hardlock's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Python75
Now, if someone can point me to instructions on how to post a picture...
Use advanced post and add the bottom is a button for "manage attachments".

Browse for your pic(s) and once entered, hit "upload". That's about it. Close the window and submit your reply.
Sep 08, 2004, 06:30 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardlock
Oh and use a 9x7 SF prop, not a 10x4.7 SF on it with that motor.

Keep us informed.
How did you know I was using a 10x4.7 prop??? HMMM you're right so I changed it to a 9x7 SF... I'll let you know hopefully tonite when the wind dies...
Sep 08, 2004, 08:46 PM
Registered User
That was it!!! Flies much better now on the smaller prop... Thanks so much!
Sep 08, 2004, 09:31 PM
Easy, Tex
Python75's Avatar
Here she is.

The stripes are also easily visible from the bottom, of course.
Sep 15, 2004, 10:19 AM
Bit-Twiddler and Flyer
Well I've now tried out the LensRC 17T CD-ROM brushless with an 8x4 GWS DD prop. The motor worked great on my ParkShark.

The net result, many crashes and Carbon Falcon in the hanger for repairs. Have ripped the rip-stop, killed a servo and loosened at least one CA joint at the root near the brass tubes.

Added the speed rods and developed a wing pucker so strengthened the wing-tip rubberbands to smooth that back out. Re-checked 2.25 inch height of wing-tips. The elevon up travel was practically non-existent with the heavier rubber-bands but looked like it'd be OK.

A bit windy day but not over 7mph gusts. Tossed it, full throttle, CF went right into the ground. Figured I had the CG wrong, nope it was right. Decided then maybe motor too powerful for the CF or needs a different thrust angle. Next throw tried with half throttle only.

Success for a short time, would pitch up a lot with the wind gusts and sometimes prop stand. Decided to move the CG forward and brought it back down. A few feet before the flare and it nosed in like a tuck under.

CG more forward, wouldn't climb, fought it at level and full up elevator around the field. AUW with this setup and the iRate 1100 is 8.3 oz. Shouldn't be a weight issue.

Picked it up, checked everything, servo had come loose from the back side of the mount. Tightened up the servo mount nuts. Rechecked all nylon nuts.

Moved the CG backward again. Pitch up in the wind. Difficult to control. CG too far back right? Eased the throttle up to 3/4 and flew very well for a little while and then started having control issues. Could only turn right.

Brought it back in and the servo was dead. Post flight check shows that the horizontal rod that slips into the fuselage brass tubes is now loose at the rubber connector and allowing the tube to slide left and right. It looks like the CA is giving up so I'll need to check all CA glue joints, order a new servo and either get new wing fabric or order some clear repair for the leading edge in several places.

I really wanted the LensRC motor to work well with the CF, that's what I bought it for. I'm still not convinced the motor is bad combo, but It'll be awhile before I can test it again.

Anyone else trying with one of these very light high thrust brushless?

-- ggunnners
Sep 15, 2004, 10:38 AM
bat
bat
Registered User
bat's Avatar
I just slapped a feigao motor into my ipsa gear box running a 2s kokam 1024 and the 10x4.7 prop. Noticable power difference. at full throttle she climbs at 40 degrees without pulling back on the stick. but will tool around at eye level at around 1/3 throttle. I am sure my battery prop gear box combo is not using the full potential of this motor but even in this stock configuration it has given me a differrent bird. if anyone else is using the feigao motor let me know. Ultimately this little brushless will be used for a tail motor on a micro heli
Sep 15, 2004, 02:13 PM
Registered User
hardlock's Avatar
ggunners - I presume you are using the LensRC motor with the IPS mount? You may be having severe thrust-line/angle problems. Is the motor shaft on top or bottom? Not having one of the motors myself I'd guess it should go on top the mount stick. If you want to email me some pics of your damage and setup I'll see if I can find anything not right to the eye. Also I'll send you some more repair tape if you want.

For anyone testing ANY new setup, first and formost get it to glide well first. Adding power to any unbalanced plane will only make matters worse and make it harder to find the trouble.

Once trimmed and gliding well with tips set at spec, then gradually add power and see what happens. If nose up, thrust line is too low, if nose down, too high. If you need to move it but can't, then adding a slight angle to it as I did with the PJS-300 mount shown on the "owners hanger" page solved my pitch-up problems.
Sep 15, 2004, 03:46 PM
Bit-Twiddler and Flyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardlock
ggunners - I presume you are using the LensRC motor with the IPS mount? For anyone testing ANY new setup, first and foremost get it to glide well first.
Yes, it was the IPS mount. The prop is in the same position as the IPS DXA drive it replaced but with 3-4 times the thrust. The motor weighs a little less but the CC10 ESC weighs a bit more. The CF was gliding just fine several times. I didn't retest after each change to the CG though. Probably should have.

I'm thinking I have 3 problems now.

1) Speed rods are causing a very tight wing so I'm losing elevator up control and causing the servos to work too hard, thus the servo failure. This may also be why I'm getting some rips in the wing fabric. I'll need to try some different rubber bands until this is more to the planes liking. Maybe dropping the wing tips a bit might help.

2) As an aging Carbon Falcon, I'm seeing some CA joints become lose. I'll need to check them all over and reattach those that have broken free. This may be the bulk of my problem right now since I probably don't have good structural integrity of the air frame.

3) Thrust line sure sounds like the culprit. The thrust line is the same as the IPS DXA. At full throttle it goes straight for the ground. At 1/4 to 1/2 throttle, it appears OK. If I flip the mount over, it'll place the motor slightly lower than the center line. That may be the first thing to try after sorting out the other pieces.

A pitch up can be handled with a bit of down elevator or mixing, the pitch down ends in a crash. Just too much thrust for my own good.

-- ggunners
Last edited by ggunners; Sep 15, 2004 at 09:19 PM.


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