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Sep 05, 2004, 03:04 PM
put the kettle on....
David A's Avatar
My first post and such a sad subject. I saw the flight and crash, it left me feeling numb for a number of reasons, not least- sympathy for the pilot and the ramifications for our hobby if that huge model had fallen on people or property.

The more I've thought about very large models over the last week the more my views have hardened and it has made me question the whole rationale of building and flying such monsters.

Some of you guys are far more learned than me and your hypothesis are very convincing. I hope somebody finds out eventually. I think the reason may be something simple. It was a very windy day, it was a big model and the wind simply got underneath it, quickly pushed it up onto knife edge and left the pilot no time/height to recover.

Whatever the reason, I just hope lessons are learned in order to prevent a repetition because one day a poor unfortunate person is going to be underneath one of these goliaths when it goes in, and nobody can say that this was the last large model crash.
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Sep 05, 2004, 03:04 PM
Registered User
Yes I agree 100%, that is why i hate seeing big aircraft crash, thank god no one was envolved as in got hurt by it. As soon as something bad happens the goverment may start to tighten the restrictions on our great hobby!!! Of course i hate seeing anyone crash. I just worry that some gov official may see this big aircraft crash and start think about thee safety of such large A/C....
Sep 06, 2004, 11:44 AM
Registered User
Model aircraft always have and always will crash every day and probably a high proportion of those crashes have lethal potential, fortunately good training and safety regulations mean that very seldom is that potential realised and that was the case here, because the model was flying over a relatively safe area no one was hurt. Big or small, don't matter which.

Rob.
Sep 06, 2004, 12:19 PM
Balsa!!!
WOW. This thread is stirring up just like the 9/11 case 2 years ago.
Sep 08, 2004, 11:23 PM
TLAR Black Belt
ejett's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haldor

See slight pitch down at 12:35:27 (timer visible on the larger video which includes takeoff)

Sad to see such a model crashing..
I noticed that too. It sure seems like everything went wrong from that point on. That may be very significant evidence to the crash investigation.

BTW: All of the videos of the Fairchild crash that I have seen seemed to have been composites and not a continuous piece of film/video. If you look closely it appears the bank on the plane changes from left to right and back to left again before impact.

Am I seeing things here? Anybody else ever notice that?

EJ
Last edited by ejett; Sep 09, 2004 at 12:54 AM.
Sep 09, 2004, 08:39 AM
Al the Alien's Keeper
Kimmers4Ever's Avatar
When ti come to stuff like this, it makes me want to send a condolance card. Ug.. I just can't get past the money spent. Makes me cringe.
Sep 09, 2004, 10:46 AM
Registered User
radfordc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryMC1
Shawn, in fact, the FAA in the US restricts the weight of 'Ultralights' to 254 pounds. So this model was weighing in at a substantially higher weight than an Ultralight.

Gary
The 254 limit for ultralights is empty weight on the ground...no fuel, no pilot. Ultralights normally fly at a weight of 500-600 lbs and speeds of 60-70 mph.

Charlie
Latest blog entry: Assembling a Spandau kit.
Sep 09, 2004, 11:32 AM
Simplicate and add Fun!
graham_mca's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robrow
Model aircraft always have and always will crash every day and probably a high proportion of those crashes have lethal potential, fortunately good training and safety regulations mean that very seldom is that potential realised and that was the case here, because the model was flying over a relatively safe area no one was hurt. Big or small, don't matter which.

Rob.
I have been to Barkston Heath many times and the photos of the crash site on the link posted by Brian (leccyflyer) do not look like a part of the air base. Being 'download speed challenged' I have not seen the video which may well make the location of the crash more clear.

But as best I remember the demo line layout from 3 years ago I would suspect that this crash happenned significantly further away from the intended flight path than would have been required to reach the substantial crowds of spectators present.

I hate to see these big models fly, never mind crash, it just makes me nervous, I never turn my back!
Sep 09, 2004, 06:35 PM
Sloping off....
leccyflyer's Avatar
Graham

I've only been to Barkston Heath myself once and wasn;t there at the time, so don't know the details of the crash location beyond that on the video, though that shows that the model crashed behind a bank of trees, which might suggest that this was outside of the airfield itself.
The video shows the crash site to be relatively close to a dwelling, some reports have put the distance as something in the order of 25m, which would presumably be outside of the airfield itself. Initial reports were that the crash had occurred in the garden of the house, but the photographs demonstrate that it actually occurred in a stubble field, presumably left after crop harvesting.

Brian
Sep 09, 2004, 10:29 PM
Noob!
Quote:
Originally Posted by radfordc
The 254 limit for ultralights is empty weight on the ground...no fuel, no pilot. Ultralights normally fly at a weight of 500-600 lbs and speeds of 60-70 mph.

Charlie
Charlie,
No doubt. I guess I just assumed that people would know that. However, still, a 350 pound R/C with eight engines is still big! The full up gross weight may not be as heavy as an ultralight, but empty weight is still a good amount.

Gary
Sep 09, 2004, 11:27 PM
LiPo Suction Specialist
JDCochran's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert May
Fredrik
I am struggling to understand your post.
Let me see if I can help:

-----------------------------------

Frederick: "Gordon, 'ow much is it?"

Gordon: "Wot! You're a 'chisit'? Are you from 'lestah'?"

-------------------------------

Does this help?

[please pardon my poor attempt at British humor... only they can do it justice... oh, and sorry for the devastaing loss. And... are there any weight limits to models in Europe? I mean model planes, by the way. Please post answer(s) in NASA units... not in JPL unts.]



John
Sep 10, 2004, 10:00 AM
Registered User
MikeTwain's Avatar
After reading through this thread I've come to the conclusion that building and flying a plane like this is practically a different hobby than flying an IFO in your backyard. This plane cost more than 100 times what my IFO cost and weighed about 500 times more.

To me, this is similar to the difference between me taking a Sunday drive in my Toyota and NASCAR drivers hurtling around a track at 200mph.

We and the regulators should probably recognize the fact that these planes need a different approach.
Sep 10, 2004, 10:32 AM
Intentionally left Blank
Berk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTwain
We and the regulators should probably recognize the fact that these planes need a different approach.

Agreed Mike...

Here is a 'Different approach' from the day before's B52 Slot.....

Tx aerial Horizontal, and the caller looking the wrong way!!!!

Regards,

Steve
Sep 10, 2004, 11:26 AM
LiPo Suction Specialist
JDCochran's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTwain
...We and the regulators should probably recognize the fact that these planes need a different approach.
One at the end of the runway would help.



Again, what's the weight limit in Europe?

-- JDC
Sep 10, 2004, 11:52 AM
You win again, gravity!
Muxje's Avatar
Quote:
Again, what's the weight limit in Europe?
Probably different in each country UK has the same limit as Holland I think: 20kg. Large models like these are allowed to fly in at least some EU countries, but I've no idea what rules apply... inspection, insurance, contact w/ air traffic control... I think you need to get a special permit for each flight as well.
Last edited by Muxje; Sep 10, 2004 at 11:55 AM.


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