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Jul 07, 2016, 05:13 PM
Ghost Rider the pattern's full
santanig5's Avatar
Thread OP
Mini-Review

SAFE Select Receiver from Spitfire and Timber


I managed to get my hands on a couple of these receivers through RGC one from the Spitfire and one from the Timber, at first glance they are indiscernible unless their labels are in tact. The Spitfire is labeled THM603X and EFL8650V1. The Timber is labeled THR605X and EFL5250V1. Why is this important, they work the same way right?
Why becuase the factory orientation is different for each. For the Spitfire the servo connectors are facing the front and for the Timber they are facing aft.
I guess if we ever get the chance to buy these directly from Horizon we will have options to match our use case unlike the EFLR310013 Apprentice Rx.

I have decided to start my bench testing where it all began when Suenaga (Jim) fitted his E-Flite Dallas Doll with the Apprentice Rx. I can tell you that if you are using the Apprentice Rx today, the Timber matches the orientation and fits in the same location, HOWEVER the elevator needs a reverser. (Same for the Spitfire)
If you use the Spitfire you will need to extend the cables for the rudder and elevator so if you buy a long reverser you can kill to birds with one stone so to speak.
I did have to get a little creative with the routing of the cables, but it was no big deal.
I then setup all of the conrtol serfices according the the Mustang manual. It was nice to have the gear and flaps work independently as was intended and to add that elevator flap mix according to the book.
I tested both AS3X mode and SAFE mode (using the mode switch) and they bench test as expected, once I get the reverser I will take her for a field test and complete this report.
It should be noted that I am testing using a DX8, but once proven will move these receivers to my larger 1400mm planes and the DX9.

GJS
Last edited by santanig5; Aug 24, 2016 at 08:47 AM.
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Jul 07, 2016, 06:59 PM
Jim Lafferty
Suenaga's Avatar
Looks good!
Jul 07, 2016, 08:50 PM
Registered User
SystemsGuy's Avatar
Excellent work - I pity the guy at HH who has to keep the programming straight!
Latest blog entry: FrSky Long Range!
Jul 08, 2016, 07:30 AM
AndyKunz's Avatar
We have a good team. They can handle it - it's not that hard if you use the right tools and do things the correct way.

For my transmitters (the AirWare transmitters) I have a file (target.h) that defines each transmitter by way of the features it supports. I can build a custom transmitter in about 5 minutes, or add a feature to them all or only to one at will.

Andy
Jul 08, 2016, 08:01 AM
Ghost Rider the pattern's full
santanig5's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz
We have a good team. They can handle it - it's not that hard if you use the right tools and do things the correct way.

For my transmitters (the AirWare transmitters) I have a file (target.h) that defines each transmitter by way of the features it supports. I can build a custom transmitter in about 5 minutes, or add a feature to them all or only to one at will.

Andy
Great! Can I get you to convert my 4 NIB AR636 Open Stock receivers to SAFE Select for me? :-)

GARY
Jul 08, 2016, 08:04 AM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Just as soon as they grow gimbals and an LCD.

Andy
Dec 16, 2017, 11:49 AM
Registered User
piano0412's Avatar
Are the parameters in the SAFE select receivers programmable?
Dec 16, 2017, 12:04 PM
Ghost Rider the pattern's full
santanig5's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by piano0412
Are the parameters in the SAFE select receivers programmable?


Some are via the Spektrum Program Software and some are not. You should check out Spektrum on YouTube, they have a whole video series on AR636 programming, some of which translates to the SAFE Select Rx.
You just need a programming cable. I have both for the smartphone and the PC. I like the PC version better.
Dec 16, 2017, 03:06 PM
Registered User
piano0412's Avatar
Okay, let me be more precise. I just bought a Freewing MiG-21. As I am not too experienced with jets so far and therefore at the beginning of the learning curve of jet flying, I wanted to reuse my SAFE receivers which saved me a lot of money when I started RC flying 1.5 years ago.

I read in the SAFE receiver in other planes thread that somebody successfully flew the MiG-21 with the P47 Razorback SAFE select receiver. I have a spare Timber SAFE select receiver, which I suspect will have improper values for a high speed jet. So I had in mind to change the Timber Rx to a Razorback Rx which has proven to work properly in a MiG-21.
Dec 16, 2017, 06:10 PM
Ghost Rider the pattern's full
santanig5's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by piano0412
Okay, let me be more precise. I just bought a Freewing MiG-21. As I am not too experienced with jets so far and therefore at the beginning of the learning curve of jet flying, I wanted to reuse my SAFE receivers which saved me a lot of money when I started RC flying 1.5 years ago.

I read in the SAFE receiver in other planes thread that somebody successfully flew the MiG-21 with the P47 Razorback SAFE select receiver. I have a spare Timber SAFE select receiver, which I suspect will have improper values for a high speed jet. So I had in mind to change the Timber Rx to a Razorback Rx which has proven to work properly in a MiG-21.
Gotcha.
I am running a SAFE Select Rx in my Rochobby Super Scorpion 70 EDF and you are correct I was able to overcome the ocillation with a combination of minimizing the rates in my Tx and changing the AS3X gains via my Tx.
I don't know if the rates for a P-47 will be correct out if the box, but with the software and programming cable you can tweak it after each flight until you find the correct values or with a computer Tx as described above.
One other suggestion since I don't know the Mig-21 is the E-Flite FJ-2 Fury, it works with the original Apprentice Safe Rx and made for a very good 1st. EDF for me.
Either way I suggest you do your first flights with a buddy box or experienced pilot to take iver as I did.
GJS
Dec 17, 2017, 03:27 AM
Registered User
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If the SAFE works, why then buddy box? When I started flying, I never flew with a buddy box right from the beginning. Thank you for mentioning the Scorpion, I was offered the Scorpion by an RC guy living close to me. I could either use an Apprentice S Rx (whose settings I would have assumed to be too high) or an Corsair S Rx. In any case I would need to find out how to program the panic button into my DX18 V1 which I recently bought in exchange for my broken DX8.
Dec 17, 2017, 08:48 AM
Ghost Rider the pattern's full
santanig5's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by piano0412
If the SAFE works, why then buddy box? When I started flying, I never flew with a buddy box right from the beginning. Thank you for mentioning the Scorpion, I was offered the Scorpion by an RC guy living close to me. I could either use an Apprentice S Rx (whose settings I would have assumed to be too high) or an Corsair S Rx. In any case I would need to find out how to program the panic button into my DX18 V1 which I recently bought in exchange for my broken DX8.


Neither of those receivers will work well in the Scorpion, I've tried them both, the only one that worked well for me was a SAFE Select receiver because I was able to change the rates, this cannot be done with the original SAFE receivers.
I suggest a buddy box because I do not know your experience level and as you said you are learning to fly EDF, they are very different. One never really knows how the safe system is going to work when transplanted and unlink a "dumb" receiver it does have control over your airplane.
If you feel that your experience level is such that you can handle anything unexpected then go for it.
Whenever I transplanted a SAFE Rx I always had an experienced pilot do the maiden in AS3X mode, trim it out and land it. Then I would replace the battery and take it up in AS3X mode, get a "few mistakes high" and enable the SAFE system. Some times it's a non-event others something unexpected happened and I was able to switch it off and land in AS3X mode.
The original SAFE receivers seem to be a little more predicable, but the newer SAFE Select receivers with their built in mixes are not so much and if you start messing with the programming anything can happen. When I enabled SAFE mode on my T-28 during testing it flipped inverted and darted to the ground, I was able to switch off and save it, but just.
So be careful.
For more information you would do well to post in the SAFE in another plane forum. There is much knowledge there and guys who get deeper into how SAFE works then I.
Best!
Dec 18, 2017, 11:32 AM
Registered User
piano0412's Avatar
Oh, thank you for your advice! Based on the SAFE in another plane thread, I transplanted an Apprentice S Rx into a Hype Corvalis, a Corsair S Rx into a PZ FW-190 and a Timber SS Rx into an FMS 1400 mmCorsair. All worked well, besides some small oscillation on the horizontal stab of the Corvalis in strong head wind. Therefore I wouldn't mind to transplant an Razorback SS Rx into a FW MiG-21, when I was told that it had been proven to work.

I know that jets behave a bit different from prop planes, so I am right at the beginning of a new learning curve. Starting flying prop planes, I never flew with buddy box. Supported by intense simulator training, after one or two days in beginners mode I proceeded to intermediate mode where I could actually steer the model even if I was protected from laying her upside down. But I actively had to fly them on the deck nearly right from the beginning - even though it was more a glide in with motor shut down. I used the SAFE as a protection from unexpected situations and used it rarely. I quickly moved on to flying just with AS3X without any SAFE mode. Now proceeding to jet flying, I would have liked to copy this learning model. However, you just advise me not to fully rely on SAFE in planes not tested before?
Dec 18, 2017, 05:50 PM
Ghost Rider the pattern's full
santanig5's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by piano0412
However, you just advise me not to fully rely on SAFE in planes not tested before?

Correct, planes that came with the SAFE system were fine tuned for it to worked exactly as it was intended. The Apprentice will take off and land hands off, but take that same Apprentice Rx and place it in a F4UCorsair or P51 Mustang and it will not.
With the SAFE Select Rx we have to opportunity to do some fine tuning of our own, but it takes time and a pilot who is good enough to deal with unexpected results when the system is enabled.
Bench testing is a huge part of it, but in flight things happen quickly as you know.
I would suggest you go through the Spektrum programming videos, not all apply, but I learned a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...RshoLuMZKu_Gi1
Dec 19, 2017, 12:53 AM
Registered User
piano0412's Avatar
Thank you


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