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Oct 19, 2016, 07:51 PM
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1/2A Nut's Avatar
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I bench tested my Norvel .074 it has only had a few tests no air time.

Results:

Norvel .074 / APC 6x4 - 17,603 rpm / 30% Nitro 20% Castor (1 min 26 sec)


Published on Oct 19, 2016
Norvel .074 / APC 6x4 - 17,603 rpm / 30% Nitro 20% Castor
Static: 19oz thrust / .203hp / 151.4w / 67 mph


Condition is new with less than 20 mins total run time.
Anticipate around 22k unloaded 83 mph good sport prop no
trouble with idle. Perhaps if you unscrew the exhaust nipple
Should hit 18k after some air time, muffler is robbing rpm,
could add an extra shim. Tapped out a 1/2A bullet spinner
for a 4mm stud the fit is perfect for this engine and prop.

Update with modified Heli muffler closing off the throttle exhaust:

Norvel .074 static stats:
APC 6x4 - Heli Muffler
19,147 rpm / 196w / .262hp / 22oz / 73 mph
Last edited by 1/2A Nut; Jan 28, 2017 at 04:14 PM.
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Oct 28, 2016, 01:35 PM
Registered User
Anxious to see you run the rear exhaust Novarossi .12... Not that it'll compare directly with my unpiped side exhaust version, but I'd sure like to see how she sounds at 30-35K or whatever RPM you wring out of it. May want to go outside to run that one!

I really need to mount mine up and run it one of these days, it still hasn't been turned over even once yet because the pinch is too tight to do it cold I guess. Also I'm not real sure about what prop to run. I have a couple smaller APC's but I'm not sure that they're safe at the engine's max RPM.
Oct 28, 2016, 03:12 PM
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1/2A Nut's Avatar
Thread OP
Here is a high performance car engine conversion I did.
After some break in time I coaxed it up on the pipe real quick to get a taste of the powah.


GS Pro V12RR Car Engine Conversion With Russian 1.5cc Tuned Pipe (1 min 8 sec)



Published on Nov 15, 2015

GS Pro V12RR Car Engine Conversion With Russian 1.5cc Tuned Pipe.
Testing with a APC Pylon 6.5x5 race prop when it pops up on the pipe
it is very noticeable. I have it a tad rich so had to coax it just a hair to roar
up to 21,963 /104 mph static.
At this stage the engine is not fully broken in and needle has more to give.


Now with the same prop I tried it with the following it is a .12 engine by ASP
that was originally used for Cars, Boats and Heli, later sold as a aircraft engine.
Big difference in power.


ASP .12 APC 6.5x5 MACS Tuned Pipe (0 min 25 sec)


Published on Nov 29, 2015

ASP .12 APC 6.5x5 MACS Tuned Pipe
4th test 3.75" header rpm still in good range 20% nitro 20% oil
APC 6.5x5 / 18,980rpm / 90mph /.44hp / 1.85lbs thrust


Should be interesting to compare the same prop with the ReX REF .12
The prop is very robust and can handle the power of a .20 size engine.

Specs are beasty for sure.
http://www.novarossi.it/2012/index.p...-cc/ref12.html

REF.12
Displacement: 2,09 cc
R.P.M. (max power): 37.000 RPM
Practical range: 2.000-43.500 R.P.M.
Bore x stroke: 13,80x14,04 mm
Sleeve: 3 ports
Rear ball bearings: steel
Front ball bearings: steel
Crankshaft: 11,50 mm
Carburetor: aluminium - 6,5mm - rotary
Glowplug: Standard Special (C4S)
Exhaust position: rear
Starting: -
Weight: 195 g
Fuel type: 10% nitro
Last edited by 1/2A Nut; Oct 28, 2016 at 11:24 PM.
Oct 28, 2016, 03:37 PM
------
coriolan's Avatar
In its time the ASP 12 was quite impressive (considering its price), but was fragile if pushed too hard!
Oct 28, 2016, 07:47 PM
Registered User
earlwb's Avatar
I thought that the little ASP .12 engines were good too. Nice sport engines, but not for racing. The other types the rear exhaust engines worked OK as well, if I remember they were in .09 and .15 sizes. They were decent sport engines too, but the muffler tends restricts them some. But they run OK. I happen to have some of them at home, but I haven't done anything with them for flying them yet.
Oct 28, 2016, 11:13 PM
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1/2A Nut's Avatar
Thread OP
To be fare with the ASP test I have another offering a prop more suitable for its power
A prop the high performance engines would fold in half with ease. Check out this:

ASP .12A / APC 5.25 x 6.25E / Russian 1.5cc Tuned Pipe (0 min 48 sec)


Published on Jan 9, 2016

ASP .12A / APC 5.25 x 6.25E / Russian 1.5cc Tuned Pipe
Static 18,873 / 112 mph / est. unloaded at 130mph+
.18hp / 1 lb. static thrust / 20% nitro and oil / MACS header.

Both used the same tuned pipe vs the MACS pipe on the other test
the racing pipe added more rpm less volume than the MACS pipe.
The other change of course no thick robust pylon prop rather a
thinner E prop yet good amount of pitch at a 112 mph static without
question top end blistering speed is assured est 140mph down wind.


However if thrust is needed this kicks arse 1.9lbs static with good pitch
speed still a trade off for freight train vertical performance at around 100 mph unloaded

ASP .12A / MAS 6x4 / 22.37k / 1.5cc Tuned Pipe (1 min 52 sec)


Published on Jan 10, 2016

ASP .12A / MAS 6x4 / 22.37k / 85 mph static / 1.5cc Tuned Pipe
1.9 lbs. thrust / .42 hp / 313w / 20% nitro and oil
At this stage the engine is well broken in and needle is peaked.

The engine has bearings has a low end needle adjust bang for the
buck is extremely good it is after all a car boat heli engine for performance.
The weight is great I highly recommend.

As shown the ASP .12A engine: pipe, header prop and spinner nut 200.04g
The Novarossi Rex .12 is 211g with just prop of course the power is extreme.

Another note the Novarossi tuned pipe with muffler is a heavy steel beast at 96g on its own.
I am shocked they would make the pipe out of steel ok for a boat but not for aircraft!
It is over kill for the .12 more suited for a .20 - 25 size engine. The MACS 10 to .15 size pipe is 41g.
a excellent alternative. Second pic next to a 15 - 20 size aero tuned pipe for reference.
The Novarossi header pipe came unpolished I had to buff it up myself. They now polish at the
factory this engine was bought back in 2014 just prior to the change.

ASP .12A / 2.11cc engine.
20% nitro and oil using full wave pipes

Top 4:
APC 5.25 x 6.25E / 18,873 / 112 mph
MAS 5.22 x 6 / 19,541 / 111 mph
MAS 5.5 x 4.5 / 22,430 / 96 mph
MAS 6x4 / 22,370 / 85 mph

APC 6.5x5 / 18,980 / 90 mph
APC 7x6 / 15,830 / 90 mph
APC 7x5 / 17,118 / 81 mph
APC 6.3x4 / 20,700 / 78 mph
Last edited by 1/2A Nut; Aug 04, 2018 at 11:49 AM.
Oct 29, 2016, 08:51 AM
Registered User
surfer_kris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amp Abuser
ASP .12 APC 6.5x5 MACS Tuned Pipe
4th test 3.75" header rpm still in good range 20% nitro 20% oil
APC 6.5x5 / 18,980rpm / 90mph /.44hp / 1.85lbs thrust
In my notes I have the ASP .12 doing 18400rpm on the APC 6.5x5 prop. That's on 10% nitro and with the stock muffler.

So just putting a pipe on an engine doesn't mean that it will suddenly perform. It needs to be set-up with a port timing that can take advantage of the tuned pipe too. Comparing open face (or header only) rpm to the rpms with the tuned pipe on, is something that is very easy to do. It will then tell you if the pipe infact is improving the power or if it is just acting as a fancy muffler...

If you can find one of the Rossi .15 pipes they are well made and from aluminium. The Picco .12 engine will spin the APC 7x4 prop at around 22000rpm with this pipe.
Oct 29, 2016, 09:48 AM
Registered User
After checking my Picco .12 notes, I used a control line 4mm insert in the carb, and a 7-5 MA prop (G3) and it went 18,300 open exhaust and 22,000 with the Ucktam aluminum pipe on a quick check. I think the Ucktam pipe is designed for about 25,000 rpm, so that prop seemed to fit in there. I really think the Picco is well made. It is the first ABC engine that felt right from the package for piston/cyl fit. I wonder how a Novarossi would compare. I wonder about the larger .28 size too. I have been thinking of making a B speed plane for a lot of years, and think the Novarossi would be a nice one to try. I do have a K&B .29 RR RE and an Axial .28 to play with. It will take a lot of experimenting and I don't really want to make different planes to test, as a paved circle of 150ft diameter is hard to find. I did finally find one though in Flint Mi. As far as pipes are concerned, an F2A pipe may be the ticket. They have different sizes of outlets for adjustments, and are light. Made for 40,000 rpm though, and likely not cheap. The car ones might work if the curves are taken out.
Oct 29, 2016, 01:14 PM
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1/2A Nut's Avatar
Thread OP
I do like the Picco engines and have 6 of them. The Novarossi seems to be yet another great
engine and with many speed records under it's belt.

This Novarossi .12 uses 70% nitro requires no water cooling with such high nitro. He raps the pipe
to keep it warm isolating any air cooling while running and holds the world speed record, the only .12
to bust 100mph. The aluminum head has been taken down to its minimal size to reduce cooling.

HD-GQ going +103mph with his .12 Rigger (0 min 45 sec)


HD-GQ going +103mph with his .12 Rigger
Published on Feb 19, 2016
2/14/16 Blue Lake in Valdosta, GA
Glenn Quarles blasting a monster +103mph pass with his little .12 outrigger

Topic on this effort:
http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=68782


Readings taken with my audio tach:
First pass 39,274 rpm
2nd pass 40,189 peak was brief but solid reading.

Glenn used 70% nitro 10% castor and 8% synthetic
.062 wire drive on bearings. ABC1523 modded prop.
Navarossi Plus 12-3 SCT engine custom tuned pipe.

Displacement: 2,1 cc
R.P.M. (max power): 42.400 RPM
Practical range: 6.000-43.200 R.P.M.
Bore x stroke: 13,70x14,25 mm
Sleeve: 3 ports
Rear ball bearings: ceramic
Front ball bearings: steel
Crankshaft: 11,9 mm - turbo
Carburetor: aluminium - 6,5 mm - slide
Glowplug: Turbo (C5TGF)
Fuel type: 16% nitro
Last edited by 1/2A Nut; Oct 29, 2016 at 02:06 PM.
Oct 29, 2016, 05:54 PM
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1/2A Nut's Avatar
Thread OP
For the ASP .12A I found Nirvana through the progression to the last vid posted via the Russian pipe.

The Irvine F2A .15 pipe is well shaped and made can recommend that one too.
The MACS pipe will work with the Novarossi as shown should be a good match.

A lanky 1/8th ply box style fuselage with spruce square stock with some
thin ply or glass skinned thin solid balsa wings will be stout enough to handle 280mph.
Of course you can just go buy some carbon/ balsa wings and retrofit if price is no object.

The Graupner carbon mix Speed Props are popular with the REX .12 engine in Europe for
price and function. A 5.5x6.5 unloaded to the the engines peak power range at 42.4k
would get 260 mph potential down wind. If lanky and large enough should be able to
monitor it across the great blue sky easy enough.

37in span around 230 Sq.In. Vicious

Last edited by 1/2A Nut; Oct 29, 2016 at 11:41 PM.
Oct 30, 2016, 07:35 AM
Registered User
surfer_kris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amp Abuser
For the ASP .12A I found Nirvana through the progression to the last vid posted via the Russian pipe.
Are you referring to these numbers: ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amp Abuser
ASP .12A / MAS 6x4 / 22.37k / 85 mph static / 1.5cc Tuned Pipe
1.9 lbs. thrust / .42 hp / 313w / 20% nitro and oil
At this stage the engine is well broken in and needle is peaked.
I think one has to be careful when changing many things at the same time. You now have a prop that by most people are considered to have a lower pitch than what is marked on it. Secondly I don't understand where you get the power data from?
Using the excel sheet from Pe Rivers, a 6x4 spinning at 22000rpm is only about 215W?
This is about the same power as you have with the 6.5x5 spinning at 19000rpm?

Again, this is about the same power as one would have without a pipe?
Oct 30, 2016, 10:27 AM
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1/2A Nut's Avatar
Thread OP
I don't use the excel sheet from Pe Rivers.

See pic, while you rounded down 370 rpm I rounded up 30rpm.
The hp per calc states .419 so 746w to 1hp. / 312.6 / 313w

There is no input for an MA prop so the next thin prop option is APC
The MA is much wider at the tips so there is your compensation.

I noted what Airraptor observed he used a pitch gauge and found less pitch
not sure which prop he checked. With a nylon prop if enough power is applied
the pitch increases under static load. If too much power is applied it changes
permanently. I have seen it happen visually notable.
Last edited by 1/2A Nut; Oct 30, 2016 at 10:46 AM.
Nov 13, 2016, 08:29 PM
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1/2A Nut's Avatar
Thread OP
Mini Midget mustang from Airborne Models:
I have already received this one in the mail will be one of two ARF's on the slate for winter completion. I have a Norvel .061
with a Profi 1/2A tuned pipe for it, should keep it peppy with good vertical. Perhaps 90 mph it is small and very light all balsa
with a glass cowl. $79.99


Known .061 AME Piped Peformance:

Published on Aug 10, 2015
.061 AME Norvel on a Profi Tuned Pipe
Non SPI version with 150 deg exhaust timing
APC 4.2x4 2oz of bench running prior to first flight
In the hand 25,436 / 96F summer day
Best level pass 27.683 / 105 mph
12oz all up weight 5ch plane with flaps
88sq. in 28in span

http://www.airborne-models.com/html/...p?ProductID=98
Jan 01, 2017, 05:08 AM
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1/2A Nut's Avatar
Thread OP
So far the Fuji .05 is my fastest 1/2A engine recorded to vid for 2016
Hope to do better next year.


Best pass 36,747 rpm gives a theoretical 157 mph potential from a HQ carbon / nylon 4x4.5 prop.
Per Doppler wave analysis: 238 kmh / 147.89 mph down wind.

1st pic taken from the best pass 1080P 30FPS frame.
2nd pic has the TD .09 on the nose the fast goo maker.
Jan 28, 2017, 04:20 PM
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1/2A Nut's Avatar
Thread OP
Norvel LMH VMax7 - .074 static stats:

MA 5.5x4.5 - Modified Heli Muffler / CS .061 carb.
19,176 rpm / 153w / .205hp / 15.7oz / 82 mph

Has more to give early bird readings after a bit
of rich running cycles. Not near as hot running
during break is as some of the other Norvel types.
Last edited by 1/2A Nut; Jan 28, 2017 at 04:26 PM.


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