Flitz2 - Page 52 - RC Groups
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Jan 10, 2018, 04:16 PM
One Idiot is plenty...
Dbox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz
Simplicity of construction and maintenance.
Just an opposite on both counts in my world.
Yuri
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Jan 10, 2018, 04:25 PM
Aurora Builder
Quote:
Originally Posted by roydor
We used this exact method over 20 years ago in bagged thermal duration wings, we bagged them as one piece with a joiner tube and cut them in half afterwards. To avoid delaminations and compression damage we replaced the roots with hard balsa. Later we made wings with harder Rohacell at the cuts.
By the way, a joiner at the center doesn’t have to be heavier, You can build only “half a joiner” as the other side is the wing spar itself so no joiner tube or double the UD (ud of thhe wing continues in to half a joiner), at least that’s what we do today.
I don't think I'm following you here. Yes, you can build the joiner tube itself into one half, and the box into the other half, and this is lighter than two boxes and a separate joiner. I double checked and I believe that is what you are doing on that other plane? The situation I am referencing is all together different from a DLG and we made the call to not break the wing at middle because of the loads, though even at the panel breaks the loads are still high enough to give us some cause for concern. All is manageable with more UHM uni

The solution Andrey has implemented has some challenges but it is elegant in its simplicity and reuse of ex$ting tool$ng.
Jan 10, 2018, 05:39 PM
In F3J size does matter!
roydor's Avatar
Didn’t want to derail the thread. Perhaps I’ll share some more information about 2 piece design considerations in the future. Perhaps it’s time to start a separate thread on this subject as it is becoming a hot topic in this forum.

One interesting point is that you can quite easily modify ex$ting tool$ng, as you so eloquently put it, to make a “technological solution”, at least that’s what we did
Jan 11, 2018, 11:14 AM
Registered User
We made several types of dismantable versions of models. Our goal was add opoprtunity for those who already have our model or wanted to buy, but needed simplified transportation with reducing bagage size. We had to leave standart fittings which connects on fuselage used by our clients, while not greatly increasing the weight. Wing is strong as normal with the price of standart.
I didnt like increased price and necessity of changing wing connector on wing version which is dismantable in center. Eventually the wing would begin to move if not make additional sleeves for screwing points to extend explotation. There is posibility to lose those sleeves and customer will try to make new ones, which may not fit perfectly.
So we rethought construction of dismantable wing. As you see on photo we made inserts connected with force distribution elements of wing. They adds 2 grams. Center connector which is two and a half time stronger adds 3 grams. The pin pockets are also larger and needs a bit more compound. So dismantable wing in the center is a topic of another conversation.
A summary what we did.
We made pockets for the pins and installed them in the spar line. We made pockets for pins in the leading edge and near eleron line. They are laid when forming the wing. Along the cutting line of the connector-cut, there is a doubled carbon fibre skinn and a bit more resin, which exludes delamination.
The wing cuts by diamond disc and loss on the span is 1 millimeter. At the junction you will not notice this.
Wing is delivered with installed rods glued in the short part. Connection is tight and reliable. Assembling the model it is necessary to glue a thin narrow tape and an aileron with turn around the trailing edge. Its realiable and strong. There will not be a flatter. Skinn delamination wil not happen also. Packing dimensions of model are equal to lenght of fuselage with a rud of 1 meter.
We would not been making series of 10 models for Oleg if we wouldnt be sure in result.

Good luck in the sky,
with best regards from Aeromodelis team.
Jan 11, 2018, 11:44 AM
Registered User
I can feel my wallet getting lighter already!

Dave R.
Jan 11, 2018, 12:29 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
That system looks really nice and from my perspective, these planes are so lite anyway, what's a few grams.?
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Jan 11, 2018, 12:45 PM
Oleg Golovidov
olgol's Avatar
I may be overly optimistic about it, but I think all (100%) planes could be supplied with the above option (Flitz2). If somebody does not travel, the joint can be either always taped or even permanently glued, and the extra 3g will have very little effect. But the shipping costs and damage from shipping will be reduced a lot. The resale value may also be a little higher, a consideration for those who do not want/need the 2-piece option.
Jan 11, 2018, 01:18 PM
DLG Addict
Scrib's Avatar
I don't know, Oleg, wont it just fall out of the sky like a rock since it is missing 1/1500th of the wing area?

Seriously though, it looks pretty solid!

Jason
Jan 11, 2018, 01:25 PM
Registered User
landru's Avatar
Beautiful work.
Jan 11, 2018, 02:50 PM
Registered User
eitanro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by olgol
I may be overly optimistic about it, but I think all (100%) planes could be supplied with the above option (Flitz2). If somebody does not travel, the joint can be either always taped or even permanently glued, and the extra 3g will have very little effect. But the shipping costs and damage from shipping will be reduced a lot. The resale value may also be a little higher, a consideration for those who do not want/need the 2-piece option.
The problem with that is that overtime the tape doesn't stick well and it leaves a trail of sticky gooey stuff behind it and than you have clean the surface really really well with Acetone or some other nasty chemical.
If one doesn't plan to travel with the model/doesn't care carrying a big box with him (why??), than a one piece wing is a better option.
Personally, after I will get my 2 piece wing models, I don't see how I can ever go back to a single piece wing

Eitan
Jan 11, 2018, 03:51 PM
Registered User
narrow Scotch tape is not a problem with adhesion. for prophylaxis it is necessary several times in a season to wipe places of gluing petrol. it is neutral to epoxy and paint is varnish. The acetone is bad for any surfaces and is more harmful, and flushes the adhesive from the scotch tape worse.
this has never been a problem for those who fly a large glider. where often it is necessary to use strong tapes, such as reinforced fiberglass or very good orange or green tape of heat-resistant tape. there are not any problems at all.
Jan 11, 2018, 05:07 PM
Registered User
Copied from Facebook:

I understand the Solution in the case of using a Box or something similar but if you wanna Carry the Model in a backpack its in my Opinion better to Split the Wing in the middle / near the middle. Thats my wish 😀

But its a very clean an pragmatic solution! 👍🏾

Best regards Max.
Jan 11, 2018, 07:25 PM
Registered User
Oleg,

Are you going to have any 2P wing Flitz 2's available at SF?

Dave R.
Jan 11, 2018, 10:36 PM
Oleg Golovidov
olgol's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by eitanro
The problem with that is that overtime the tape doesn't stick well and it leaves a trail of sticky gooey stuff behind it and than you have clean the surface really really well with Acetone or some other nasty chemical.
If one doesn't plan to travel with the model/doesn't care carrying a big box with him (why??), than a one piece wing is a better option.
Personally, after I will get my 2 piece wing models, I don't see how I can ever go back to a single piece wing

Eitan
Eitan, you obviously did not get the memo about Kapton tape. You need to get acquainted with it. It does not leave any residue.
Jan 11, 2018, 10:37 PM
Oleg Golovidov
olgol's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreisinger
Oleg,

Are you going to have any 2P wing Flitz 2's available at SF?

Dave R.
YES! if the package gets here in time of course.


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