VWIN 600ESP clone build - RC Groups
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Jun 04, 2016, 02:00 PM
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VWIN 600ESP clone build


Hi All

The esp clone arrived a couple of days ago. Only time to open the box and give it the Mk1 eyeball, so here's first impressions.
I suspect the company bought a job lot of these, then left them in a damp lock-up for a while. Opening the box there was a 'musty' damp smell about it, and some of the frame screws had traces of rust. No biggy, easily cleaned up.
From my searches, seems the esp was a flybarred model.so they probably found sales were slow, so pulled the fb head and put in a VWINRC fbl one instead.
No problem with that. I have the same head on my 550GT, and it's very good. Even survived a side on impact with mother earth from quite a height. No damage apart from a slighly rough bearing, since replaced.

Only real downside is in the listing it said 'high quality glass fibre canopy'. There wasn't one.
Did e-mail the company and got this reply.

Cottrell hello, these are the products of the inventory, otherwise would not be so cheap, as long as a packaging box, we do not head cover, so will send to you, everything will be subject to images. If satisfied please give a high praise, thank you, deeply greetings to you.

Eh? translation please.

That's about it for the bad bits, now the good stuff.

First, price. Did get done for customs rip off, but then again it was free ship, so one cancelled the other. Total came to 117 or so.
Not bad for a 600 size.

The carbon frames are 2mm, so should survive even my flying. It has push/pull servo linkages, which I personally like, and even gives you frame washers for the frame bolts.

Tail is TT. I have a Garrt 450L with a TT tail and it has been trouble free, so let's hope this is the same. Has brackets for boom mounting the servo, again one of my personal likes.

Does not use a swash guide, but has a lever arrangement that does as elevator control and swash steady. Jury out on this one, but same arrangement as my Raptor. Never had a problem with that.

Overall, seems a solid bit of kit. Building and flying will tell me more. Watch this space.

Almost forgot, grub screw missing from tail hub. Nit picking, anyone?

Tell a lie, it's in one of the plastic bags of spares, along with extra bolts, washers, loads of bits.

Everything a growing boy needs, ha ha.

That's about it from BL towers. Stand by for the next gripping installment.

Jeff

P.S. thoughts/ questions.

Not sure on power train atm. Tempted to go with 6s, make a nice floaty type model for those warm summer evenings (remember those?)
Jury still out.
Heard a lot about a third bearing conversion, to make the frame a bit stiffer.
From my searches so far, seems my frame might be a bit wider than the Trex original, so parts might be hard to source. Also no-one seems to know what would be the correct main shaft for this conversion.
Anybody any thoughts?

J

Hi Guys

Seems this model is generating a fair bit of interest, so someone (thanks BA) has suggested I add a link to the supplier.
Here you go:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/600ES...396332710.html

then type '600esp the flapless helicopter' into the search box.

Enjoy

Jeff
Last edited by Border Lord; Jun 11, 2016 at 10:20 AM. Reason: additional
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Jun 04, 2016, 02:05 PM
Registered User
Hi All

Work on the 600 esp is progressing, albeit slowly. Handicapped by waiting for parts, plus needing to keep the rest of the fleet in flying order. Have to say there is no big rush on this one, so time is not of the essence.
Someone has asked for a few progress piccys. Quite what's the turn on about pictures of inanimate bits of metal and carbon I don't understand, so I won't mention who asked.
So, for your delectation, here you are Pat (oops!)

Push/Pull bellcranks in. These pivot on a shaft that goes across the frame.



Middle of this shaft is another bellcrank which operates the elevator function. Seems a lot of mechanism to me, but it feels so well made and smooth moving, don't think it will be an issue.
Anyway, that takes the place of the swash guide. Never had a model with this feature before. Like to see how it works.



Servos in. Noticing a lot of nice little touches. For instance, they supply some small triangular plastic pieces. These fit inside the frame and are held in by a small self tapper. The other ends of the triangle are the holes the servo mount screws go into.
So, no more fitting the servos before joining the frame, or fiddling with pliers and harsh language trying to get nuts on the back, from inside.
Small thing, but someones been thinking.
So far, liking this model a lot.
The front servos fit back to back. This means they get a little close in the middle, so I have done what I normally don't do, and use the rubber grommets supplied with the servos.
Awaiting servo arms. Advised that Futaba ones will fit. We'll see.



Battery in. Going 6s low h/s route, so got a 120a YGE LV esc on the way.

Jun 04, 2016, 02:06 PM
Registered User
Hi Pat

The old saying 'if it looks right, it'll fly right' applies to this. Of course, testing will tell, but I'm getting a really good vibe with this one.
This will make three 600 size in the fleet. The Raptor 30 is a fine flyer, always has been, but not the most exciting to fly. Hope the Frenzy is now sorted, but will not believe it until it gives me a season of trouble free use. So, there is space for another.
Anyway, real helicopterers don't need an excuse to add another to the fleet.
Jun 04, 2016, 02:12 PM
Registered User
Hi Guys

Veery interezting, but shtoopid.
Pop quiz, anyone remember what show that phrase comes from?

Meanwhile, stripped the 600esp head as well. Will need greasing before I fit it in, so worth doing anyway, plus I wondered whether any parts might be interchangeable with the Frenzy. No such luck, unfortunately, but I did find something odd.
On the feathering shaft, outboard where the thrust bearing fits, there were traces of rust. Rather supports my theory the kits had been stored for a while in a damp lock-up. It was only surface rust, and wiped off easily, but I do wonder how it got there.
Anyway, no biggy, going to fit one of these

https://www.align-trex.co.uk/600-fea...60h002xxw.html

That won't be coming apart anytime soon!

Jeff
Jun 04, 2016, 02:15 PM
Registered User
Hi Guys.

Meanwhile, hope nobody minds hijacking the thread for occasional progress reports on the ESP. What I find might be of use to someone, probably Pat when he finally gives in to temptation.

So, where we at?



Servo links are in. The ones to the internal bellcrank were a bit fiddly but no biggy. Did find the links were excellent fit on the balls.
Snapped on with some effort, but once on no play and very smooth moving. Great.
Next up, the maingear, and there I hit issues. Nothing I haven't met before, seems a common problem.
First, the gear would not run true.Turns out the gear was flat enough, the problem was in the gear carrier. Spun it up in a drill and could see the wobble in the plate that holds the gear itself.
The carrier is the same as on the 550, and I had a couple of spares, so checked them and found the same problem. Did contemplate an Align replacement, but since I would also need an uprated tail gear, it would come out at 22 or so.
Last resort, that one.
So, finally cured by slipping some shims between the gear and the carrier. Still slightly out, but perfectly acceptable. Then the tail drive gear was not fully engaged with the pinion. Used some Align mainshaft spacers to drop the whole assembly down a little, engaged as much as possible, but without the main gear rubbing on the pinion.
Finally the tail drive gear was slightly out of round, so tightened up at part of its rotation.
Needed to move the whole tail drive assembly back a bit.
Not a great fan of slotting the holes, never seem to be able to do it neatly, so I just drilled out the holes to the next size up. In this case, 3mm to 3.5mm. Just enough to move the whole plot a fraction.
May sound a bit fussy, but this is a part I really enjoy (anal, moi?). Whole assembly now as smooth as a babies whotsit.
Bring on the next.

Jeff
Jun 04, 2016, 02:17 PM
Registered User
Hi BA

600esp has stalled for a while. Needed some shims to adjust the front umbrella gear mesh. Couldn't find any in my spares box, so had to order some.
Should be here soon so back on track.
Can't speak to quality compared with Align or HK since I have owned neither.
Only go by what I see, which is pretty good. Had to do a fair bit of fettling, which I am sure I would do anyway, definitely on the HK and probably the Align as well.
Other than that, happy with what I have found so far.
The old saying 'if it looks right, it'll fly right' definitely applies here.
Got a good feeling about this one.

BTW, been spending the kids inheritance again.

Got a Helioption gimbal swash and a HK DFC head coming for it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291130932312

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=46326

Will see what I get.

Jeff
Jun 04, 2016, 02:22 PM
Registered User
Hi Guys

Few random musings from here at BL Towers.

Weather horrible over here, wet and windy all week, so not been able to test the modified (yet again) Frenzy head. I look on this as encouraging. any time the weather gods get in the way of testing, I know I am on the right track.

So, from the workbench:

600ESP build has been waiting on some shims to adjust the tail mesh. Got rather more slack in the front umbrella gears than I like. Posted the question on the Align 600 thread and was advised (thanks JPF) that a 12 x 15 x 0.3 shim would do the trick. Couldn't locate one of those, but did find a seller over here offering 12 x 15 x 0.5. Had to buy a set of shims, cost me 11 so I was anxious to see if it worked.
Well, it did fine. The gears now have a fraction of play, but no binding anywhere so someone has got the hang of moulding circular gears.
Lost no time rigging up the boom and TT assembly.



Now starting to look like a helicopter. So far, so good.

That's all folks

Jeff
Jun 04, 2016, 02:50 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord
Hi Guys

Veery interezting, but shtoopid.
Pop quiz, anyone remember what show that phrase comes from?

Meanwhile, stripped the 600esp head as well. Will need greasing before I fit it in, so worth doing anyway, plus I wondered whether any parts might be interchangeable with the Frenzy. No such luck, unfortunately, but I did find something odd.
On the feathering shaft, outboard where the thrust bearing fits, there were traces of rust. Rather supports my theory the kits had been stored for a while in a damp lock-up. It was only surface rust, and wiped off easily, but I do wonder how it got there.
Anyway, no biggy, going to fit one of these

https://www.align-trex.co.uk/600-fea...60h002xxw.html

That won't be coming apart anytime soon!

Jeff
Pop quiz. Laugh-in?
Jun 04, 2016, 03:00 PM
Registered User
Very interesting.
Jun 05, 2016, 03:21 PM
Registered User
Hi Guys

So, motor.

I originally ordered HK H3763 in 1330Kv size.
This from HK Euro warehouse. Unfortunately I selected non-tracked shipping. After all, Holland to UK, quick trip across the north sea. What could possibly go wrong?
You guessed it, never turned up.
Ho hum.
Got enough stuff from HK, inevitably goes wrong on occasion, no biggy, just re-order.
Can't do, discontinued b****r.
So the hunt began for an alternative.
Meanwhile, I have an old Typhoon 600 sitting on the shelf. So long ago I can't even remember what I ordered it for.
Bit low on Kv, 1100 as opposed to 1330, but I had ordered 14t and 15t pinions, so should be able to make it work.
Pinions are in 6mm dia to match the motor I ordered, and so should be the Typhoon. Not so, turns out to have a 5mm shaft!
So delve into the spares box scored me a length of 6mm silver steel rod. Quick kiss with some wet and dry to fit the bearings and
'voila' instant 6mm shaft.
Stick with it, it gets better.
So dug the pinions out of the box, and they seemed odd.
Although listed for a 600 heli, the teeth were only 6mm deep, where the main gear is 9mm, so the pinion only operates on the centre section of the gear.
Had my doubts about this, but went for a run up anyway.
Result, horrendous vibration, whole frame was a blur. Oh no, says I, not again.
Anyway, pulled the boom off. Loving the TT set up. The whole boom /holder comes out as a unit, no messing with the belt.
Without the boom the vibs gone, so started investigating.
Remember reading somewhere about using a 450 boom to slide the bearing and holder down the boom.
My tip, DON'T DO THIS.
450 boom is too narrow, and after checking I realised that all it had done was to push the bearing out of its rubber holder. So the centre bearing was basically unsupported. No wonder it vibrated.
Luckily, no harm done. Re-inserted the bearing using a much bigger spare boom (ECO 8, since you ask) and now all good.
Run up to about half power, on a 3s pack, showed the very slightest buzz, almost imperceptible, and probably motor slightly out of balance. Other than that, smooth as a babies whotsit.
None of this is a criticism of the ESP. Continue to be impressed with the quality of what is a budget build.
More a case of however many models I have put together, I can still goof with the best of them.

Still concerned about the narrow pinion, so looked around for an alternative. The main gear is Mod 0.7 which is a little unusual, Most this size are Mod 1.0, but Align still list in 14t and 15t so ordered the 15t to allow for the lower Kv motor.
Trouble is, only available for 5mm shaft.
Oh well, out with my precision hand crafted 6mm shaft and back in with the old 5mm one.
Pinion arrived today, no time lost fitting it, and all now as it should be. Good stuff.

So, couple of things to like.

I did one of my favourite mods to the motor.
Instead of bolts going in from the top, I fitted a couple of studs from 3mm threaded rod, glued in with Red Loctite.



Makes adjusting the mesh so much easier. I use plain nuts first to lock it in place, then once I am happy, a couple of nylocs over the top. That ain't coming loose anytime soon.

Also, motor access is so good. 6 self tappers to take off the battery tray, then 4 bolts and the whole motor/ mount assembly slides out the front.





Motor maintenance is not going to be an issue.

Just a quick aside. Not for me, but a quick measure seems like the boom and torque tube from an Assault 700 will fit. RCChinaMade has the boom at $4 and the TT at $3.
700 on a serious budget anyone?

Jeff
Jun 05, 2016, 03:53 PM
rc user
Nice write up Jeff.
I snagged one of those H3763 motors for my 550 when they were on sale. Speaking of which, we should note deep discounted items is usually the kiss of death, looking over some old orders I'm finding many items I bought on sale are now discontinued.
Anyway, one thing I noticed with that motor is it seems to draw a lot of power. I need to do better testing to confirm this.

Other thing noted, you seem to have generous frame spacing or very shallow aileron servos. The Turnigy BLS950 servos in my HK550 required 2 spacers each to keep from interfering.

Glad you sorted the TT problem, I'm looking forward to see how those gears hold up. I have had no luck with smaller clone versions in my 450.
Jun 05, 2016, 04:50 PM
Registered User
Hi Pat, thanks.

I think you may be right. HK seem to be discontinuing quite a few items. Actually pretty sensible. They used to stock so many items that were basically the same, inventory control must have been a nightmare, so reducing the product range looks a good idea.
Take the DFC head I ordered.
They stock the complete head, with shaft and swash

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=46325

plus the head and shaft less swash

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=46326

and swash separately

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=46327

Three product lines where only two are needed.
Notice the complete set is now shown as zero stock, and I doubt it will be re-stocked.

As regards the frame, I measure it at 47mm. Did hear a while back of the Typhoon motor not fitting in the frame, too wide. Not sure whether this refers to the 600 or not.
Personally I hate using spacers. Makes the whole plot seem 'Heath Robinson'ish'.
To get mine to fit, I did use the grommets supplied with the servo, which I don't normally do, but looks so much more professional.
Out of interest, remember that Esky Esmart you found on the classifieds. On mine, it has very narrow frames, and they supply spacers about 3/8" thick, Look horrible to me.
Instead I fitted some low profile servos, BMS 706 MG, designed for wing mounting. Worked a treat.
Still on there despite conversion to FBL, and I can't fault them.

TT gears seem well made, and most important round. Can't find any tight spots anywhere. I have a Garrt 450L with TT and have had no issues on the gears with that either.
looks like you may have just been unlucky.

Still waiting for the variety of DFC heads I ordered, so that will probably be my next post. Tracking is telling me nothing. Received the Helioption swash from VRC in the States. Tracking tells me that it is still in New Jersey, go figure.

We'll see

Jeff
Jun 06, 2016, 03:21 AM
Registered User
Atomic Skull's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord

Does not use a swash guide, but has a lever arrangement that does as elevator control and swash steady. Jury out on this one, but same arrangement as my Raptor. Never had a problem with that.
I like elevator arms, and bellcranks too. Easiest setup I've ever done, centering everything is a snap compared to direct to swash links because you can lock the mechanics at center with a set of pins and with the cranks locked the pushpull links must be equal in lenght and the servos perfectly centered or the links won't fit. So either the head is right, or it is not and there is no in-between where it's "sort of" right.



One other good thing about a pushpull system is that if you soft mount the servos they won't rock back and forth under load because the pushpull links equalize the load on the servo wheel.


Looking at the ESP manual it seems that like with the Rush there is no collar between the bearings in the cyclic bellcrank arms so take care to tighten the screws on the elevator crank AFTER you tighten the screws on either side that hold the aileron cranks on to ensure that one side doesn't get "pinched" by the elevator crank which can damage the bearings. If you have say 0.1mm of lateral play in the bellcranks it's better to just leave it than to try and shim it out and risk possibly overloading and damaging bellcrank and frame bearings if you shim it too much, it won't affect the link geometry by any measurable amount.

Also looks like there is no setup pin system on the ESP like with the Rush.

A good way to measure the links is to replace the screw in the servo arm and on the end of the bellcrank arm shaft with M3 balls and adjust the pushrods until they fit the balls.

I always use green sleeve retaining compound to hold TT bearings on the shaft, CA glue sets too fast and it invariably comes loose over time.
Last edited by Atomic Skull; Jun 06, 2016 at 03:58 AM.
Jun 07, 2016, 04:09 AM
Registered User
May I ask where you bought the kit?

thank you
Jun 07, 2016, 05:27 AM
Registered User
Hi Paolo, welcome.

Here you go

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/600ES...396332710.html

Hope you're aware this is not the one in the pictures above. That's a little more expensive.

Jeff


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