The Mobius 2 ActionCam Support Thread (Key Info in Posts 1-7)! - Page 5 - RC Groups
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Jul 25, 2016, 09:52 AM
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Hi Sevet,

FYI, we do in fact ship to Israel.

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Jul 25, 2016, 10:14 AM
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Thank you @jokiin for uploading these! They have made my choice much easier. I think currently the M2 is a step backwards from the M1 currently. The colouring is not good and in the second clip the quality with oncoming traffic looks worse than a cheap 20usd camera and it's not really dark! The sharpness is ugly and so grainy - improved from the first clip...what improvement!

Secondly, it's worrying that the lens flares are so apparent. To me that says cheap lens and little testing. Lens flares are so easy to test yourself as well...Tom did you not think to test this? Did the developers not think to test this?

Thirdly, in your first clip Jokiin the camera loses focus when you go round the first corner at the light. This seems to be because the cameras AWB changes but the camera seems to lose focus for a second or so with a significant drop in detail and sharpness. Was your lens loose and this was just a coincidence or does this seem to be a software issue?

I know Tom and the developers keep stating image quality will be improved but unfortunately I don't want to buy a product that after being delayed and delayed and delayed for improvements can only produce quality that is worse than the M1 it seems.

We'll have to wait for comparissons but at the moment I does not seem like a good camera. Maybe it will improve but if it has taken this long to get to this standard you are going to have a long wait until it gets much better.

Back to my M1 I go.
Jul 25, 2016, 10:57 AM
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Race Miata's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneLaw
Took the plunge on the Legend2 a few days ago where an betaprice of 59.99US shipped where quite attractive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMeandMyself
But Mobius dev guys should realize that a non-negligible part of their sales is from the RC market and then should act accordingly to address this market.
I was also waiting impatiently for M2 to be released but was also following the Legend 2 development.
Finally, I've choosen the later.
I was going to post these earlier but I knew Tom would've responded "off-topic". I'm surprised he didn't with your posts. Now I know he just doesn't like whatever I said even though they were the truth. I went from a hardcore #11/#16/Mobius fan to totally lost hope.
Jul 25, 2016, 11:34 AM
Who is John Powers ?
Any option for remote trigger of pictures or recording via the usb plug to be controlled by a flight controller ?
Jul 25, 2016, 11:39 AM
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ukbren's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Miata
I was going to post these earlier but I knew Tom would've responded "off-topic". I'm surprised he didn't with your posts. Now I know he just doesn't like whatever I said even though they were the truth. I went from a hardcore #11/#16/Mobius fan to totally lost hope.
they are off-topic. of course - this is a Mobius2 support thread! maybe tom is just AFK today, or maybe he's "lost hope" of battling such posts.
Jul 25, 2016, 12:47 PM
Just say "No, it's under 250g"
scottyo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Miata
I was going to post these earlier but I knew Tom would've responded "off-topic". I'm surprised he didn't with your posts. Now I know he just doesn't like whatever I said even though they were the truth. I went from a hardcore #11/#16/Mobius fan to totally lost hope.
The Mobius 2 may not be for you anyway...

To add something that is at least a little on-topic: My camera arrives tomorrow or Wednesday. I will shoot some video as soon as possible and post it on youtube, with links provided here.
Last edited by scottyo; Jul 25, 2016 at 01:25 PM. Reason: Reworded.
Jul 25, 2016, 02:16 PM
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DaneLaw's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Miata
I was going to post these earlier but I knew Tom would've responded "off-topic". I'm surprised he didn't with your posts. Now I know he just doesn't like whatever I said even though they were the truth. I went from a hardcore #11/#16/Mobius fan to totally lost hope.
I would more assume its something like this..that are off-topic, and posts abut bxxching with theories of personal grudge ' that are not relevant..

anyway HEVC265 (M2) certainly got its forces if Mobius2 can take advantage of High Efficiency Video Coding format..
around half the bitrate, with same quality compared to the 264*peloton..
but unsure what depth-profile that are in play in M2s HEVC265..
Last edited by DaneLaw; Jul 25, 2016 at 03:00 PM.
Jul 25, 2016, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneLaw

anyway HEVC265 (M2) certainly got its forces if Mobius2 can take advantage of High Efficiency Video Coding format..
around half the bitrate, with same quality compared to the 264*peloton..
but unsure what depth-profile that are in play in M2s HEVC265..
maybe I misinterpreted things, I kept reading about H.265 offering the same quality at half the bitrate so was expecting to see more efficient file sizes when set to H.265 but the camera uses the same bitrate for H.264 or H.265, is the idea then that the bitrate is the same but using H.265 should be equivalent to using a much higher bitrate with H.264?
Jul 25, 2016, 05:42 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneLaw
I would more assume its something like this..that are off-topic, and posts abut bxxching with theories of personal grudge ' that are not relevant..

anyway HEVC265 (M2) certainly got its forces if Mobius2 can take advantage of High Efficiency Video Coding format..
around half the bitrate, with same quality compared to the 264*peloton..
but unsure what depth-profile that are in play in M2s HEVC265..
You're right on both accounts!

The Mobius HEVC codec uses the Main Profile (L4.1), just right for it's 1080p-60fps video. It seems the value of this codec has not yet sunk in, with many just saying memory is cheap, who needs it. Some of the same people are screaming for 4K as well. Good luck to them with AVC codec at that resolution. For me, being able to copy files twice as fast, taking up only about 1/2 the space on my hard drive with equal quality trumps the "memory is cheap mantra".
Jul 25, 2016, 06:02 PM
Registered User
Well after waiting so long I don't think I'll be buying the Mobius 2. It's not any better than the competition and if anything looks worst than the Mobius 1 which I love. It's a great shame and I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels let down and disappointed at the quality. I love my Mobius so I'll be sticking with it, but I would like an upgrade and I don't think the Mobius 2 will be it.

The video clips jokiin posted show numerous problems
- Bad white balance
- So much sharpening
- Bad colouring
- Lens flare

And the worst of all
- OUT OF FOCUS WHEN CHANGING WHITE BALANCE

Something I have never seen before.

Tom can phrase it how he wants but for the camera to be delayed this much and for this quality is a joke and an insult to the people who have supported Mobius. Yeah image quality may get better, yeah H265 but looking at that quality that looks like it's a first alpha version.

Off to Foxeer I go.
Jul 25, 2016, 06:12 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jokiin
maybe I misinterpreted things, I kept reading about H.265 offering the same quality at half the bitrate so was expecting to see more efficient file sizes when set to H.265 but the camera uses the same bitrate for H.264 or H.265, is the idea then that the bitrate is the same but using H.265 should be equivalent to using a much higher bitrate with H.264?
The M2 has 7 bit rate options for each resolution and frame rate, with rates somewhat proportional to the amount of data flow for a given frame resolution and frame rate. You have the option to record at the same bit rate with either codec, or chose a lower one when using HEVC to get smaller files while not giving up any video quality. I think the specific bit rates for each resolution need some tuning to better accommodate the HEVC "1/2 the bit rate with equal quality" ability, but that is something to be addressed as the FW matures. In theory, HEVC can also give better quality at the same bit rate as AVC, but I question whether that will produce any significant visible difference when the video capture is limited to 1080p-60 in the CMOS imager, as well as the video playback display for most of the users at this point in time. Maybe recording with HEVC at the higher bit rates will produce some visible improvement when it's 1080p video is up-scaled on a 4k monitor, but I don't have a 4K monitor to test it.
Jul 25, 2016, 06:13 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank
You're right on both accounts!

The Mobius HEVC codec uses the Main Profile (L4.1), just right for it's 1080p-60fps video. It seems the value of this codec has not yet sunk in, with many just saying memory is cheap, who needs it. Some of the same people are screaming for 4K as well. Good luck to them with AVC codec at that resolution. For me, being able to copy files twice as fast, taking up only about 1/2 the space on my hard drive with equal quality trumps the "memory is cheap mantra".
I didn't see this post but I would just like to clarify some things Tom:

1) My understanding is that H265 is really for 4K simply because it's meant for high bitrates of data (60mb or more)? 1080P does not really hold enough data and as such H265 is sort of wasted on 1080. I believe the American equivalent would be going to McDonalds and getting a King Size meal but only a small coke to save on calories - the point being it doesn't really do much.

2) Why is AVC a problem for 4K? Large file size...if that's the only problem but I know I won't come across any problems in my editing software then that's a small price to pay.

3) You're clearly a Mobius fanboy (no insult meant just a statement) but you do not seem to acknowledge any weaknesses the camera has in comparisson to other cameras currently on the market? Why is this? You constantly state the Mobius 2 will get better but when? It was delayed by 4 or so weeks to 'improve' and the posted clips since then look just as bad. Maybe it's time to stop defending and listen to the criticism like lots of other manufacturers did.

4) Why do the clips posted by Jokiin look so bad if H265 is so good?

Thank you
Jul 25, 2016, 06:28 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bournetofly
Well after waiting so long I don't think I'll be buying the Mobius 2. It's not any better than the competition and if anything looks worst than the Mobius 1 which I love. It's a great shame and I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels let down and disappointed at the quality. I love my Mobius so I'll be sticking with it, but I would like an upgrade and I don't think the Mobius 2 will be it.

The video clips jokiin posted show numerous problems
- Bad white balance
- So much sharpening
- Bad colouring
- Lens flare

And the worst of all
- OUT OF FOCUS WHEN CHANGING WHITE BALANCE

Something I have never seen before.

Tom can phrase it how he wants but for the camera to be delayed this much and for this quality is a joke and an insult to the people who have supported Mobius. Yeah image quality may get better, yeah H265 but looking at that quality that looks like it's a first alpha version.

Off to Foxeer I go.
I have no idea what FW was in use for those sample videos, but even if it is the release V1.36, out of date. I received three new FW versions for evaluation today that address much lower sharpening, WB stability and low light improvement. I don't recall seeing the "out of focus" issue you mention, but it cannot be a focus issue per se since the lens and CMOS aren't moving to go out of focus... maybe a compression "breathing" artifact or something, I don't know exactly what you are referring to.

At any rate, I have no quarrel with anyone who chooses to go with a different product. I'm only doing testing for the Mobius2 developer and am not selling them. Enjoy you Foxeer!
Jul 25, 2016, 06:45 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank
I have no idea what FW was in use for those sample videos, but even if it is the release V1.36, out of date.
V1.36, it is the latest according to the GUI setup program, those were recorded in H.264, will try H.265 next to see if any improvement
Jul 25, 2016, 06:50 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by bournetofly

4) Why do the clips posted by Jokiin look so bad if H265 is so good?

Thank you
they were H.264, I tried that first so I could make a fairer comparison to the Mobius 1, also seems some people have trouble playing high bitrate H.265 files, will be trying H.265 out today though to see if it offers any improvement, Tom mentioned the release firmware being out of date already but there's no newer version offered so can only test with what's available at this stage, I'm sure as more people get theirs there will be many more samples to look at


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