Foxeer Legend 2 - ON ITS WAY! - RC Groups
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Apr 30, 2016, 03:26 PM
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Foxeer Legend 2 - ON ITS WAY!


Foxeer Legend 2 is coming ETA MAY!

FOXEER Legend 2

Designed for Racing Drone.
UHD24fps, QHD30fps, 2K30fps, 1080P96fps, 1080P60fps.
12MP SONY BSI CMOS.
FOV166 F2.8 optical glass lens.
Electronic image stabilization.
Manual settings of sharpness, contrast, saturation, AEL and more.
Powerful APP, in-built WiFi, easy to share.

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FOXEER Legend 2 beta version testing (1 min 18 sec)

FOXEER Legend 2 beta version testing video (0 min 55 sec)
Last edited by Emulle; May 08, 2016 at 08:04 AM. Reason: added video
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Apr 30, 2016, 08:16 PM
Registered User
Yeah ! What is the release date and the price ?
May 01, 2016, 05:01 AM
Online
Quote:
Originally Posted by giovanni67500
Yeah ! What is the release date and the price ?
Foxeer on Facebook wrote that the price is "unbelieveable" and estimated release in may!

I'm so glad I held out, I've was just about to order the Legend when I found out about this.

96 fps in 1080p will be smooth.
May 01, 2016, 05:57 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emulle
Foxeer on Facebook wrote that the price is "unbelieveable" and estimated release in may!

I'm so glad I held out, I've was just about to order the Legend when I found out about this.

96 fps in 1080p will be smooth.

The new joovuu xa , the legend 2, and the mobius m2 ...
Big hesitation now
But there is still no information about the mobius release , or hardware... that's not cool
May 01, 2016, 11:26 AM
Online
Quote:
Originally Posted by giovanni67500
The new joovuu xa , the legend 2, and the mobius m2 ...
Big hesitation now
But there is still no information about the mobius release , or hardware... that's not cool
Mobius m2 might be really good, but without some hard specs and and ETA it's really just not that interesting...

I am really looking forward to the size and weight of legend 2, they wrote it will be smaller.
May 01, 2016, 04:50 PM
aRCee Moloko [YT]
Justapoke's Avatar
That Legend 2 looks very very nice!

Think that might be my next cam, I was just about to order a Runcam 2, the Mobius 2 has taken to long, and with the rumoured lack of Wifi control function.. it's just not interesting any more to me.

Maybe, just maybe I'll buy a M2 as a new headcam if it has good quality image and a narrow field of view, but it has to com at a low price.

I've started to use the Sony AZ1 now as headcam, it has decent narrow if you use the stabilization funtion. But as flight recorder the Legend 2 now becomes interesting I think.
Last edited by Justapoke; May 01, 2016 at 05:01 PM.
May 01, 2016, 05:41 PM
Registered User
ukbren's Avatar
iirc the Mobius2 has a 1080p sensor, so resolutions higher than that are out. I also seem to remember that it will have frame rates no higher than 1080p60 (720p120 perhaps, not sure). now, with the sensor being 1920x1080 then at 1080p it may well give a very good picture. it's not all about resolution and frame rate, however - light handling, ease of use etc. all come in to play. there's very good community support for the Mobius and there's no reason to think that won't continue with the next generation.

I do sometimes think though that the Mobius2 could already be out of date before it's even been released i'll keep an open mind...
May 01, 2016, 06:32 PM
Registered User
the legend 1 had 16 mp sensor , the legend 2 only 12 mp :-/
May 01, 2016, 07:20 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by giovanni67500
the legend 1 had 16 mp sensor , the legend 2 only 12 mp :-/
Which is still enough for UHD with pixels to spare for image stabilization.

The $2600CAD Canon XC10 4K video camera I'm looking at is only 12 mp
May 01, 2016, 08:19 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by giovanni67500
the legend 1 had 16 mp sensor , the legend 2 only 12 mp :-/
"Only 2 MP sensor! What, may I ask, do you plan to display your video on? Even 4k is much larger than most PC displays now in use. Any native video that has greater resolution than your display device is wasted, since it will have to be scaled down or cropped to fit your display. If scaled down, you have to discard all the extra pixel data, so you lose resolution. If it's cropped to fit your display, you lose FOV, and both waste battery life by processing the data that gets thrown away! I know there are some that might have 4K TV's now that can be adapted to display that higher resolution, but the M2 does not have an HDMI port or WiFi, so you'd an intermediate device to store and read the video after transferring from the camera's memory. And of course, that device would need to be able to process 4K video at it's native frame rate smoothly as well. This is far from the mainstream of users the M2 was designed for. Sorry if the M2 will not meet your needs.
May 01, 2016, 08:29 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_of_49
Which is still enough for UHD with pixels to spare for image stabilization.

The $2600CAD Canon XC10 4K video camera I'm looking at is only 12 mp
And image stabilization takes its toll on the DSP chip's ability to process high frame rate video without dropping frames or dropping the data rate needed for high quality compression. There is hardware that can do this, of course, but it needs a larger, heavier battery, and will cost a lot more.

One day I expect the Mobius developer might produce something like this, but for me, small size, light weight, and low cost are the essential qualities for the majority of the RC model aerial photography user base, not UHD resolutions or double digit mega pixel imagers. Just my opinion of course...
May 01, 2016, 09:37 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank
"Only 2 MP sensor! What, may I ask, do you plan to display your video on? Even 4k is much larger than most PC displays now in use. Any native video that has greater resolution than your display device is wasted, since it will have to be scaled down or cropped to fit your display. If scaled down, you have to discard all the extra pixel data, so you lose resolution. If it's cropped to fit your display, you lose FOV, and both waste battery life by processing the data that gets thrown away! I know there are some that might have 4K TV's now that can be adapted to display that higher resolution, but the M2 does not have an HDMI port or WiFi, so you'd an intermediate device to store and read the video after transferring from the camera's memory. And of course, that device would need to be able to process 4K video at it's native frame rate smoothly as well. This is far from the mainstream of users the M2 was designed for. Sorry if the M2 will not meet your needs.
Actually, Tom, it's common knowledge that 4k properly downsampled to 2k (1080) is noticeably more detailed than could have resulted from originally creating the recording in 2K. The reasons for that can be easily searched online and are not for a full blown discussion here, but a big part of it has to do with what happens during chroma subsampling. All in all, you'll actually end up with more color information, less grain and noise, reduced compression artifacts and a generally sharper, cleaner more detailed looking image than shooting at 1080 on the same system.

The proof is in the putting as they say. I have in front of me a UHD, QHD and HD monitor and high quality UHD and HD video content and can see this with my own eyes on a daily basis .

But there are other reasons to shoot 4k even if the delivery device is only HD. Some of them I've discussed with you before and are mentioned in the link below, You say "If it's cropped to fit your display, you lose FOV" ... well, yeah, that's exactly what you sometimes want to do, especially in situations where you are shooting very wide angle from a hatcam just to make sure your subject is always in the frame but you don't want that field of view with your subject tiny in the picture as your final product...

see...

Stabilizing Footage in Post
Cropping Footage In Post
Perfect Pans and Zooms

https://fstoppers.com/originals/6-re...w-it-yet-77535
Last edited by North_of_49; May 01, 2016 at 10:29 PM. Reason: putting, not pudding ;)
May 02, 2016, 03:53 AM
Registered User
ukbren's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_of_49
...The proof is in the putting as they say.
You were actually closer before you edited! "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" is the saying

/pedant
Sorry, back OT now...
May 02, 2016, 04:16 AM
Reap the wild wind
headlessagain's Avatar
I'm also frustrated that the Mobius 2 is taking so long to get to market especially as my A lens Mobius is now unreliable so can't be trusted. I use it mainly for hatcam footage so not really interested in anything with a wide fov.
The Legend 2 looked promising until I read of it's 166 fov and I got excited by Justapoke's mention of the Sony AZ1 but that's got "an ultra-wide 170° ZEISS lens on board" Just how much does shooting with the stabiliser on reduce this? Not down to the A lens fov I'd imagine.
So if anyone knows of a currently available narrow or selectable narrow fov action camera I'd be pleased to know of it. Maybe the JooVuu X as it's specs state "Field of View 155, 120, 90, 60"?
Andy
May 02, 2016, 04:25 AM
Registered User
Looks like mobius 2 is DOA.

4k tvs now very cheap.Even many budget smart phones shoots 4k and M2 having 1080p,no image stabilization ,no wifi and worse still its still some months away.
May 02, 2016, 04:59 AM
Camera Reseller.
Quote:
Originally Posted by headlessagain
I'm also frustrated that the Mobius 2 is taking so long to get to market especially as my A lens Mobius is now unreliable so can't be trusted. I use it mainly for hatcam footage so not really interested in anything with a wide fov.
The Legend 2 looked promising until I read of it's 166 fov and I got excited by Justapoke's mention of the Sony AZ1 but that's got "an ultra-wide 170° ZEISS lens on board" Just how much does shooting with the stabiliser on reduce this? Not down to the A lens fov I'd imagine.
So if anyone knows of a currently available narrow or selectable narrow fov action camera I'd be pleased to know of it. Maybe the JooVuu X as it's specs state "Field of View 155, 120, 90, 60"?
Andy
Yep we have it. I've PM'd you as well
May 02, 2016, 05:56 AM
aRCee Moloko [YT]
Justapoke's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by headlessagain
I'm also frustrated that the Mobius 2 is taking so long to get to market especially as my A lens Mobius is now unreliable so can't be trusted. I use it mainly for hatcam footage so not really interested in anything with a wide fov.
The Legend 2 looked promising until I read of it's 166 fov and I got excited by Justapoke's mention of the Sony AZ1 but that's got "an ultra-wide 170° ZEISS lens on board" Just how much does shooting with the stabiliser on reduce this? Not down to the A lens fov I'd imagine.
So if anyone knows of a currently available narrow or selectable narrow fov action camera I'd be pleased to know of it. Maybe the JooVuu X as it's specs state "Field of View 155, 120, 90, 60"?
Andy
Would be cool if the Legend 2 will have a narrow setting in it's firmware..

The Jv X has been announced a very very long time ago and it's listed for months as preorder on the website. I have to see them in other peoples hands first before I take that cam serious.

The Sony AZ1 goes from 170 to about 120 degree when stabilization is turned on. I like this cam a lot, form factor is nice, works pretty good in low light but it's image is a bit soft.
To my suprice I also had to refocus the lens of the Sony, it's a lot better now.

I bought it new for 150,- Euro plus around 15,- for 2 spare batterys and a charger. It's water-resistant without the housing (that comes with it), and the Wifi app works great.

Still have not used it a lot, so not that great sample video's.. but for those that are interested:

With narrow FOV / stabilization is turned on (Note: lens is not focussed yet, sorry I just don't have a good video on this yet)

TUNDRA - Removable prop MOD ? (1 min 47 sec)


With wide FOW / stabilization off in low light

First time in FPV : TSII (10 min 33 sec)


Also just made a nice headcam mount out of a $ 0,99 moneyclip:
May 02, 2016, 10:53 AM
Registered User
Everyone seems to be putting out these super-wide lenses.
Mobius its the only company that got it right, by offering multiple lens options.
(well except for the cam a few threads back, but I haven't see it in action yet.)

Foxeer, Runcam...would all benefit from taking this advise.
Not everyone likes wide distorted video. (myself included)
It really it seems like a no-brainer.
Even DJI smartened up...as seen on the P3, P4.

And even if Foxeer released firmware to allow for narrow mode, the lens would still show distortion regardless.
A true lens replacement is the only option.
May 02, 2016, 12:10 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_of_49
Actually, Tom, it's common knowledge that 4k properly downsampled to 2k (1080) is noticeably more detailed than could have resulted from originally creating the recording in 2K. The reasons for that can be easily searched online and are not for a full blown discussion here, but a big part of it has to do with what happens during chroma subsampling. All in all, you'll actually end up with more color information, less grain and noise, reduced compression artifacts and a generally sharper, cleaner more detailed looking image than shooting at 1080 on the same system.

The proof is in the putting as they say. I have in front of me a UHD, QHD and HD monitor and high quality UHD and HD video content and can see this with my own eyes on a daily basis .

But there are other reasons to shoot 4k even if the delivery device is only HD. Some of them I've discussed with you before and are mentioned in the link below, You say "If it's cropped to fit your display, you lose FOV" ... well, yeah, that's exactly what you sometimes want to do, especially in situations where you are shooting very wide angle from a hatcam just to make sure your subject is always in the frame but you don't want that field of view with your subject tiny in the picture as your final product...

see...

Stabilizing Footage in Post
Cropping Footage In Post
Perfect Pans and Zooms

https://fstoppers.com/originals/6-re...w-it-yet-77535
Yeah, I'm familiar with all that, but it doesn't change my view. Proper downscaling is device dependent, and any advantages are also display hardware dependent. Live stabilization takes a toll on the video hardware in these small consumer "hobbiest grade" cameras which are already struggling to get high enough data rates to process 1080p-60fps video with no dropped frames with low enough power consumption so a small battery and all the guts of the camera can fit in a small, lightweight, and low cost package. Most users of these small cameras shoot action video which by itself adds motion and compression artifacts and not only puts a load on the hardware, but also negate some of image quality. Videophiles and those who might use these small cameras for professional video will demand more. The larger masses who just want to press a button and capture a decent video of their latest escapade accept much less, and don't feel a need to rush out and buy a larger, heavier, and more expensive camera.

Cropping has it's advantages, but a proper lens is a better solution to get that closer scene of your subject. I won't go into the time-related drawbacks of editing 4K video, since a large majority of these cameras don't do much editing anyway because it takes too much time and effort.

Anyway, there's different needs by different users, and that's OK. Fortunately there are choices.
May 02, 2016, 10:18 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukbren
You were actually closer before you edited! "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" is the saying

/pedant
Sorry, back OT now...
naw, the edit is correct now, I looked it up

"putting" as in "putting something into use"
May 02, 2016, 10:39 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank
Yeah, I'm familiar with all that, but it doesn't change my view. Proper downscaling is device dependent, and any advantages are also display hardware dependent. Live stabilization takes a toll on the video hardware in these small consumer "hobbiest grade" cameras which are already struggling to get high enough data rates to process 1080p-60fps video with no dropped frames with low enough power consumption so a small battery and all the guts of the camera can fit in a small, lightweight, and low cost package. Most users of these small cameras shoot action video which by itself adds motion and compression artifacts and not only puts a load on the hardware, but also negate some of image quality. Videophiles and those who might use these small cameras for professional video will demand more. The larger masses who just want to press a button and capture a decent video of their latest escapade accept much less, and don't feel a need to rush out and buy a larger, heavier, and more expensive camera.

Cropping has it's advantages, but a proper lens is a better solution to get that closer scene of your subject. I won't go into the time-related drawbacks of editing 4K video, since a large majority of these cameras don't do much editing anyway because it takes too much time and effort.

Anyway, there's different needs by different users, and that's OK. Fortunately there are choices.
Not if, as I mentioned, you're shooting blind and want to keep your subject in frame at all times. The 4k resolution gives to the option to shoot wide and reframe in post and output to HD or QHD with no hit to either of those resolutions

Same with stabilization, if it's not optical stabilization in camera, I prefer to do it in post anyway (hopefully the electronic stabilization could be turned off) and the hit to the resolution is irrelevant if, again, outputting to HD or QHD.
May 08, 2016, 07:26 AM
aRCee Moloko [YT]
Justapoke's Avatar
Banggood has listed it on it's website. Not in stock yet, but with a pricetag of $99

http://www.banggood.com/Foxeer-Legen...p-1053384.html

With a photoshop'd product image
May 08, 2016, 07:38 AM
aRCee Moloko [YT]
Justapoke's Avatar
And a new video on the foxeer tube:

FOXEER Legend 2 beta version testing video (0 min 55 sec)
May 08, 2016, 08:05 AM
Online
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justapoke
Banggood has listed it on it's website. Not in stock yet, but with a pricetag of $99

http://www.banggood.com/Foxeer-Legen...p-1053384.html

With a photoshop'd product image
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justapoke
And a new video on the foxeer tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQJGfG2RibE
Nice! I am really liking the price.
May 08, 2016, 10:49 AM
Registered User
ukbren's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justapoke
And a new video on the foxeer tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQJGfG2RibE
colours look a little washed-out to me - as did the previous video. needs more saturation & contrast (I think). I'd hope that these are user-adjustable settings.
May 08, 2016, 11:39 AM
Registered User
SilverLine's Avatar
I think my Xiaomi yi 1, looks better
May 08, 2016, 02:58 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
It definitely doesn't need "more" contrast, low dynamic range and over contrast is actually the problem with these cameras. I'd like to be able to download a raw camera file, the YouTube samples have a crapload of compression artifacts making it impossible to judge the picture quality.
May 08, 2016, 04:44 PM
aRCee Moloko [YT]
Justapoke's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverLine
I think my Xiaomi yi 1, looks better
Looks?

That's one ugly camera compared to the Legend 2
May 08, 2016, 07:33 PM
mucho FPV
RocketMouse's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_of_49
I'd like to be able to download a raw camera file, the YouTube samples have a crapload of compression artifacts making it impossible to judge the picture quality.
That's why I'm very confused why people and even manufacturers keep using youtube for sharing test and demo videos, which is kinda useless. Why not to upload to gdrive and have online and download possibility at the same time.

Be clever! Don't use youtube.
May 08, 2016, 07:48 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketMouse
That's why I'm very confused why people and even manufacturers keep using youtube for sharing test and demo videos, which is kinda useless. Why not to upload to gdrive and have online and download possibility at the same time.

Be clever! Don't use youtube.
YouTube actually isn't too bad if you upload a high bitrate file or even the original camera file. I can tell with these latest two videos from Foxeer that that's not what they did, they made a low bit rate intermediate that was then uploaded which YT then butchers even more.

Also, if they would have uploaded in 4K (which the camera is capable of shooting in) YouTube gives you a higher playback bitrate on the 2k and HD streams. One trick guys do with this knowledge even when shooting only in HD is too upscale the HD to 4K for YT upload.


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