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Aug 17, 2004, 08:06 PM
I'll try anything once!
thacherd's Avatar
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My Lazy Bee Lacks power, Help?


I maidened my Clancy Lazy Bee tonight, and I must say that I love the way that this airplane looks in the sky. My problem is that I had to maintain almost full power to keep the bird in the air. I purchased the combo from Hobby People, it was their special ARF with the radio, servos, motor, esc included. Here are the specs.

Super 400 Cobalt motor direct drive motor with a 7x3 prop
a 7 cell, 8.4V, CP1300 Sanyo Ni-Cd battery pack from Watt-Age
and a wattage c-30a esc.

I was thinking of adding a gearbox and maybe a larger prop to the plane. Don't get me wrong, it flew very well. (almost floated in the air) I just would like a bit more get up and go so I can do some loops, etc. It just seems to be underpowered. Any advice would be appreciated.
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Aug 17, 2004, 08:50 PM
Rich Utkan 1947-2019 RIP
SKYPILEIT's Avatar

Lazy Bee is...


Sir,sounds just like the Bee I fly...it was 6V speed 400 powered,8 cells,6-4 prop,direct drive and 19 ounces.Flew OK but like yours...still lacking power.I purchased the ASTRO 010 brushless 4:1 planetary system on 3 lipos and it is a totally different BEE..!!Also AUW went down to 16 ozs. and it takes off with a 10 inch rollout and the 9-6 prop will provide verticle if you so desire... Biggest surprise..??The flight times went from about 6-8 minutes to 20-25.....big time fun,in a little package.
Aug 17, 2004, 09:04 PM
Visitor from Reality
Thacherd
Have around six or so Bee Years of flying - around four with a glow Bee, maybe three with an E-Bee, but this goes back some.

Idle thoughts - Yours is underpowered! A seven inch prop only really works with a 10 powered slimeyBee - which weighs around 24 oz if built with loving care and attention. My E-Bees ran all sorts of geared ferrite 540 - 600 class motors, usually off seven or eight cells - back when the SCR1400 nicad was "Sierra Hotel" stuff - and on 10" props with around 8" pitch. Longer props tended to get shortened by ground contact or at least went green around the their tips.

With a flying weight around 44oz hauling that lot, performance was, in the words of Rolls Royce "adequate" - as in, every flight ended with me grinning from ear to ear.

My new E-Bee, when I can finish her off, will have an AXI 2820/10 and ten CP1700 cells. Which, oddly enough, are all lying around my shop doing nothing right now ...

Suggestion? At least slap a gearbox on that little bitty motor and up the cell count to eight. I found that my E-Bee went just fine on 200W into a 10 x 8, which doesn't explain why I intend to put a 350W brushless rig into the new one. But why should it?

To Bee?, or not to Bee? - what a silly question!

Regards

Dereck
Aug 17, 2004, 10:06 PM
I'll try anything once!
thacherd's Avatar
Thread OP
Thanks for the input guys! Without these forums I would have never taught myself to fly!

I think I would like to try and install a gearbox on this existing cobalt 400 motor. Any suggestions as to what gearbox to get for it. I have only been flying for about 7 months and I'm not certain what gear ratios and prop sizes to use.

I have purchased another bee that I am going to set up with a brushless combo and put floats on it. I just need help getting this one some more power with the existing system. (I am willing to buy gearboxes, props, and batteries.)
Aug 17, 2004, 10:07 PM
MKH
MKH
Quote:
Originally Posted by dulcet
Sir,sounds just like the Bee I fly...it was 6V speed 400 powered,8 cells,6-4 prop,direct drive and 19 ounces.Flew OK but like yours...still lacking power.I purchased the ASTRO 010 brushless 4:1 planetary system on 3 lipos and it is a totally different BEE..!!Also AUW went down to 16 ozs. and it takes off with a 10 inch rollout and the 9-6 prop will provide verticle if you so desire... Biggest surprise..??The flight times went from about 6-8 minutes to 20-25.....big time fun,in a little package.
Andy Clancy would be proud! The only LB I know of to weigh 16 ounces was one of Andy's first protos, with litespan covering, and a teeny tiny .049 glow motor spinning an impish prop at high rpm and screaming like a banshee. It seemed to handle terrifically, but barely had the power to climb. Small brushless motors and light batteries have given the LB a new life. Of course Dereck's 40+ ounce versions do just fine too, with bigger motors and good old nicads. Such a versatile design this is.
Marcus
Aug 18, 2004, 09:30 AM
Visitor from Reality
Marcus
Versatile indeed - my glow version spent a couple of months as tri-motor electric! Ended up with three S400 on direct, running in parallel off a seven cell SCR1400 pack at around 48oz.

Never had the nerve to try and out-do Andy C's five motor foamy BARFBee though.

At KRC 96, we had Bees with 1, 2, 3 and 5 motors, in all wing sized made then - 40, 48, 60 and 72" The biggest was Andy's own 72" with three geared 600 motors and four seven cell packs - one per motor and one for the night lighting system!

I have to finish my new Bee off
Aug 18, 2004, 09:50 AM
TRP
TRP
Registered User
TRP's Avatar
I need to finish off my Lazy Bee too. It's sitting in the garage all ready to go. I just need to figure out the best way to lash the Razor 2500A to the front of it so I can go fly some. Other than that - it's ready to go.

Ted
Aug 18, 2004, 08:50 PM
Fly
Fly
Veracitarian Muser
Quote:
Originally Posted by thacherd
I think I would like to try and install a gearbox on this existing cobalt 400 motor. Any suggestions as to what gearbox to get for it. I have only been flying for about 7 months and I'm not certain what gear ratios and prop sizes to use.
I use the cobalt 400 motor with Wattage's matching planetary gearbox on my Bee. Works great. I fly with 9 x 950 KAN cells. Great performance, fair duration (about 7 - 10 minutes), with the APC 11x7 SF prop.

-- Alan
Aug 20, 2004, 10:37 PM
I'll try anything once!
thacherd's Avatar
Thread OP
Well, I tried a gearbox with a larger prop (a 10 x 7e) and and 8 cell battery, it wasn't good?? I still couldn't get the bird to get off the ground. Today i actually crashed. I didn't damage the plane, just broke the prop shaft off of the new gearbox. So, I'm ready to go with a brushless combo and maybe some NIMH or lipo batteries. I would really appreciate some ideas as to what type, and advice on how to mount them. I'm leaning towards an axi brushless. Like I siad, any mounting advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

This is the first plane I have owned that I haven't gotten to fly?? Boy is this frustrating. Yet, It is fun trying to figure out the solution.

By the way, The plane is set up correct, it is balanced, and the prop is turing the right direction??? (

I'm ready to lighten the bird up and install a brushless.
Last edited by thacherd; Aug 20, 2004 at 10:40 PM.
Aug 20, 2004, 11:04 PM
Registered User
Dr Kiwi's Avatar
An AXI 2808/20 would do the trick - plenty of power for a motor weight of 90g. These motors suck a lot of amps (15-20A) and if you go the Lipoly route you'd need something like a 3s Polyquest, Tanic or Gen 2 Thunderpower pack of at least 2100mA as a minimum. You could go for a Nippy Black 1812/100 - on 3s that will get you almost 30oz thrust from an 11x7HD @ 18A.

Cheers, Phil
Aug 21, 2004, 12:20 AM
Registered User
Ping's Avatar
I converted a lazy bee years ago to e-power. Used a Magnetic Mayhem (Actually I think it was a Trinity Sapphire motor maby, same type of RC truck motor) reverse motor with modified BB supported armature, also a Master Airscrew gearbox. I think the highest gear ratio they had, I think 3.5:1 but I can't remember for sure. All powered by 7, RC2000 Ni-Cad's. Great performance, even if it was a little bit on the heavy side. I made an arial photography rig for it with a full sized servo and an motorized 35mm camera all mounted on a light ply plate rubber banded to the side of the airframe. I remember taking some real nice photos of KRC 99' Performed good even with the extra weight. Never wanted to land, seemed like it would glider forever if I let it. Setting it down on those nice plush inflatable wheels and rubber band suspension, tamed even the bumpiest of runways.

I need another Bee, that thing was so fun I found some pictures of my bee a few weeks ago and really miss it. Those big wheels, giant fuse, and elliptical wing and tail feathers are just classic. I remember how hard it was to bend those silly balsa stringers...and filling my bathtub up with water for several days soaking all those sticks. Everyone should be required to build and fly a Lazy Bee, kinda like how clubs require you to have an AMA membership.

Dam it I want to build another one now lol
Aug 21, 2004, 06:52 AM
Rich Utkan 1947-2019 RIP
SKYPILEIT's Avatar

Chunky Bee...


Thacherd,you were lucky if your Bee survived without much damage,I think we all know that BEEs are fragile..!!Anyway,the ASTRO 010 that I use is hard to beat..it's very light,powerfull,fits the mount radius perfectly,and most of all very efficient.I suppose you could do some creative engineering and use the 2025 Hi-Max GB combos that are cheaper and also powerfull,they just don't have the efficiency of the ASTRO.For batts I use the E-Tec 1200 3 cell packs,very light at 3 ozs. and provide the 6-8 amps for the motor.Keep your eyes on the classified forum of the Ezone,thats how I picked up my ASTRO system...new and marked down.Good Luck..
Aug 21, 2004, 08:30 AM
I'll try anything once!
thacherd's Avatar
Thread OP
It survived because I couldn't get it to fly much more that 5 feet off of the ground, and I was flying in a hay field that had just been cut. It landed in one of the hay rows. Kind of like landing on a pillow, I guess? The funny thing is that with the gearbox setup, it actually flew worse that the stock direct drive setup?? Who knows. Like I said before, it might be time to go brushless!
Aug 22, 2004, 07:34 AM
Registered User
I disagree with them being fragile. Mine is in its 7th season with almost 400 flights. Most of the time with an Astro 05 cobolt, a superbox and 11 RC2000's swinging an 11-7. It has been dunked several times and has survived. It is being repaired at the present time (the battery came out thru the side) but it is a good opportunity for mods. I will change to 10 CP2400's(have a lot of them) and 2.82 ratio. Am also using this opportunity to try using the elevators as ailerons. If it doesn't workout I will use a Y harness. My mods are consuming more time than the repair.
Aug 22, 2004, 08:21 AM
Registered User
Hi,
my Bee flys with a Torcman 280/10-14pole with 28 windings. I use a 10 cell cp1300 pack, and it drives a 10x6 with about 20amp. Lots of power, even in water. I fly most of the time with floats. I also tried a 10x8, but with this setup it becomes a racer, and this may be not so good for the airframe.
Flying time is 10 minutes off water, with lots of aerobatic and splash and go, and up to 15 min. with wheels. Then she is even more aerobatic.

Kuni


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