need explanation on escs - RC Groups
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Apr 20, 2016, 07:11 PM
Registered User
Discussion

need explanation on escs


i had an account here before but i cannot for the life of me find it.

basically i have a few small cheap boats
proboat impulse and a diy build.

all my esc's are brushed but i wanted to go brushless..
problem is i have a tight budget and don't want to spend the earth on it.

now what do i need to do?

can i just go spend 10 on a cheapy brushless esc and buy a brushless motor or do i need to buy a new rx and tx as none of mine have changeable quartz...

my proboat esc has the receiver built in, is there any way to use this and divert the rest to a brushless esc?

or is it a case of needing to buy a new esc, rx and tx?

or do i just buy the esc and program my current tx to work with it?
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Apr 21, 2016, 04:12 AM
Registered User
Generally, the receiver "thinks" that anything that is plugged into it is a servo and anything that plugs into a receiver is configured with an input that acts just like a servo. Any ESC should work with any RX, assuming that they are both reasonably modern. Exceptions are old Sanwa, who liked to wire things differently and the even older 4 pin standard servos.
A combined board is probably not amenable to splitting - a manufacturer doing that usually does it to avoid spending on making a "standard" RX interface to output to the ESC and another "standard" interface to input into the ESC.
Apr 22, 2016, 11:59 AM
Registered User
sort of cleared it up but still went over my head haha

so if i want to go brushless id need :

brushless motor
esc
battery
rx
tx

i wasn't sure if the esc comes with some sort of rx built in like the all in ones ive got that just require you to hold a button to programe it to the right tx
Apr 23, 2016, 05:10 AM
Boaters are nice people.
Hi hahadumball,

If you tell us which boat you have (there's more than one Impulse) and which boat you want to use a brushless motor and ESC in, we could help by suggesting suitable motors and ESC.
Pictures, or a link would be nice.

Keep in mind, that most boats, equipped with a brushed motor, have been designed with that motor in mind; not all 'brushed designs' can handle the extra power that comes with a brushless upgrade.

Again, if we know which boat we're talking about, we can say more.

Question: why do you want to go brushless?
Is the current set-up not fast enough for you, or has the motor/receiver/ESC stopped working?

Regards, Jan.
Apr 23, 2016, 05:16 AM
Registered User
Can I suggest a lot of thread reading?
While there are some combined units, the requirement for most of the market is that any of a wide choice of RX should be capable of working any of the ESCs available because everybody has different needs. Since the motor and ESC are each half of a complete unit when talking brushless, but available separately, finding the best motor for your application, then figuring which ESC from the many available will best suit your motor and battery is the subject of much study.
Apr 23, 2016, 05:46 AM
Registered User
its the proboat 17, it is a little slow but the main issue is the esc died so i replaced with the spare that came with it but the wire antenna had been cut down, the case was damaged and it looks like it could use a change.

im pretty new to brushless i honestly don't know much about them at all except they're more powerful.

so i wasn't sure if id need to buy a new rx, plug the rx into the esc and then get a new tx to go with the rx or if the esc would be like mine and have a button you hold that programs it with the tx.
Apr 23, 2016, 09:31 AM
Boaters are nice people.
Hi Haha,

The Impulse 17 is a typical representant of the boats designed with the brushed motor in mind; the keelline is rounded (called a rocker) which makes it easier for the brushed motor to get the boat on the plane.
If you've ran the boat in stock form, you know it starts to porpoise slightly when running at top speed.

Switching to brushless will make the boat faster, but it'll also make the porpoising worse.

There are a number of 'upgrade' video's on youtube on this boat, most of them fall in the category 'how not to', as it shows a completely overpowered boat which is undrivable.
If that is your goal, go ahead, but in that case I'm out...

If you use moderate power, the boat will run like this:

Proboat Impuls 17", Brushless upgrade (1 min 6 sec)


Watch it on youtube, so you can see what's used for the conversion to brushless.
Pictures on this conversion in this thread, just scroll down a bit to the postst by Lex Verkuijl:
http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/threads...-motor.186681/

Let me know if you have more questions, or want concrete suggestions on what to get.

Regards, Jan.
Apr 23, 2016, 02:23 PM
Just Plane Nutts
AirDOGGe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hahadumball
im pretty new to brushless i honestly don't know much about them at all except they're more powerful.

The biggest feature is that brushless motors are lighter for a given power output.

Quote:
Brushless motors offer several advantages over brushed DC motors, including high torque to weight ratio, more torque per watt (increased efficiency), increased reliability, reduced noise, longer lifetime (no brush and commutator erosion), elimination of ionizing sparks from the commutator, and overall reduction of electromagnetic interference (EMI)


When converting electricity into mechanical power, brushless motors are more efficient than brushed motors. The enhanced efficiency is greatest in the no-load and low-load region of the motor's performance curve. Under high mechanical loads, brushless motors and high-quality brushed motors are comparable in efficiency.
Apr 24, 2016, 04:32 AM
Registered User
Quote:
can i just go spend 10 on a cheapy brushless esc
Probably a bit more than that if you want it to work properly, and more than once.
Dec 02, 2016, 01:49 AM
Registered User
What's the different between brushed and brushless?
Dec 02, 2016, 04:22 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosillojimme
What's the different between brushed and brushless?
A brushed motor is a complete unit. The magnet is fixed, the coils that give the power rotate. The current for the coils is fed to them through a commutator which applies power to each coil as and when it is needed. The current is applied to the commutator through brushes. I say a complete unit, because it just needs power to work. Connect it to a battery, it spins. Simple.
A brushless motor consists of a set of fixed coils with the magnet on the spindle. It needs an external circuit (ESC) between it and the battery to distribute power to each coil in turn. This circuit needs a signal input to tell it what it should be doing with the motor connected to it. Not as simple if anything along the line is not working properly.
Dec 22, 2016, 07:09 PM
Registered User
Stay with the brushed motor they're cooler
May 29, 2017, 06:36 AM
Check my blog....
Calcifer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirDOGGe
The biggest feature is that brushless motors are lighter for a given power output.
To me, the biggest feature of brushless motors.... is there are no brushes?

This means less/no drag on the rotating shaft which slows down the com shaft,,,, this 'non contact' also stops the debris buildup inside the motor as brushes will wear, the metallic 'sludge' from the brush debris inside the motor as the brushes wear can create unwanted circuits within the brushed motor.

A brushed motor with new brushes (or a new brushed motor) runs pretty good, almost as good as a brushless motor.... however, a brushless motor will always go this good until it wears out its bearings or clogs up with debris from bushes wearing. A brushed motor is always in a steady state of decline... the brushes wear which reduces the brush spring pressure on the commutator rings.... eventually the spring pressure will reduce until the brush bounces and arks on the commutator.... by then, the motor has lost alot of power/performance...

So, a brushless will go great until it dies.... a brushed will go good at the start then deteriorate throughout its life....

There is one way to prolong the life of a brushed motor.... that is the 'water break in'.... to do a water break in, remove the motor from the new model, get a non metallic bowl of 'demineralised water' .... submerge the new motor in the water.... turn the shaft by hand to make sure brushes and shaft move in the water, then connect it to the appropriate voltage it runs and run the motor submerged in the demineralised water. The water will go brown/black (brush debris) so after the water goes dark, change the water, then run the motor again in some new demineralised motor.... once the motor has run in total for about half an hour, it should stop making the water dirty (well, not so dirty) .

Then, rinse the motor in some fresh demineralised water, then thoroughly dry it.... blow dry or in sunlight (air dry) then oil the bearings. If the motor has an electronic plate at the end, don't submerge the plate have the motor in the water with the plate just above the water.

The reason a water break in prolongs life of a brush motor, is because the very first time a new brush motor turns, a brush might catch and break a chunk off crippling it much sooner than it would have.... also, the dust and debris that does come off the brushes will be flushed out the vent holes with the water. Once the motor has run for some time and the water is hardly getting dirty.... the dust that would have remained in the motor is not in there.... so you are giving the brush motor the best possible start to its life... the brushes have bedded into the shape of the commutator and it is clean inside and has some oil on the bushes.

The brush motors are very good and simple, powerful enough if you have room for a big one.... sometimes it is better in a hobby grade boat to replace four $6 motors over its lifetime instead of going to the expense of buying a $40 motor, $25 esc....

The choice is yours.

BTW, if you have a toy wit 10 hours motor time, you can still do a 'water clean' in demineralised water.... to get any junk out of the motor that has built up... as long as there are vent holes to let chunks out of, that you rinse then dry it thoroughly, then lube the bushes. I generally pull the motor (running) out from the water and run it until no more water comes out. If you have an old motor around, get some demineralised water and try it.... it works...


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