Stryker style combat class development. Video of the speed limit Stryker flight p#25 - RC Groups
Thread Tools
Apr 05, 2016, 07:52 PM
Lee Liddle
Knife Liddle's Avatar
Video

Stryker style combat class development. Video of the speed limit Stryker flight p#25


Thread mission: Gather information and opinions (particularly those from active or potential combat pilots) relating to the development of an electric power streamer combat class, formed around some of the medium sized ARF airframes in the 36" wing span range.

Areas of focus will be:

1) A list of potential airframes that are available which could be used, along with a list of vendors that supply them.

2) A list of potential power train components that would fit, also with suggested vendors.

3) Real world combat use of the above equipment to determine good power and weight levels. Possibly with a fast class and a slow class to appeal to beginner as well as veteran pilots.

4) Eventually, coming up with a set of rules that could be tested as a provisional event through the RCCA ( the combat special interest group for the AMA). The goal being to begin to standardize some of the club combat being flown in order to promote regional inter-club participation, and eventually an actual event which could be flown at the NATS, and other large, multi event contests.
...............................................
Last edited by Knife Liddle; Apr 12, 2016 at 09:41 PM.
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Apr 05, 2016, 07:53 PM
Lee Liddle
Knife Liddle's Avatar
I'll preserve several posts here at the beginning of the thread to compile lists of equipment and vendors.
Apr 05, 2016, 08:01 PM
Lee Liddle
Knife Liddle's Avatar
I know that many club combat groups just get together and fly whatever they have without much in the way of organized scoring or contest format. And that is great fun, always will be.

But if you like the idea of a class of combat could would be consistent from club to club and city to city, then here is your chance to join with me and others to develop something for the future that could eventually be a national event.
Apr 05, 2016, 08:19 PM
Lee Liddle
Knife Liddle's Avatar

A little about me.......


My name is Lee Liddle. I live in Sherman, Tx, about an hour North of Dallas. I've been flying control line or RC combat since the late 1960's. RC combat since2002. I am a member of the RCCA, not an officer, just a member.

I've been a dedicated electric only flier since about 2007. I've had a lot of success in RC combat, and in 2007 was able to win the RCCA NPS race in the Open B class flying only with electric power. After about a5 year lay off, I'm back flying RCCA combat in their mostly fuel powered classes, with e power.

Some of the RCCA's forward thinkers have asked me to help develop an E class that they could then put through the AMA's process of developing a national event.

There is no fixed time table, or any pressure to shoe horn and electric class into some preset mold. Just the desire to promote fun and safe combat that would help give community and clout to a large group of pilots that right now only have small, isolated groups, and so don't have any clout when it comes to organizing and enjoying RC combat.

So if you are interested in helping me with this effort, here's your chance.
Apr 05, 2016, 08:43 PM
Lee Liddle
Knife Liddle's Avatar

Getting Started


Since many pilots just don't build any more, I'm thinking that it will be good if we can incorporate some of the most popular ARF airframes out there, but still leave the door open for scratch builders and those who want to modify an ARF to increase performance and/or durability.

Some of the airframes that I'm familiar with are:

Stryker (epo)
Funjet (epo)
Skyfun (dense eps) (Hobby King)
Numerous combat wings (Zaggi style)
Radjet (Funjet clone)

These are all around 36" in span, and will fly well in the 25oz to 30oz weight range with a single 3s 2200mah and about 250 watts of power. With a 9/6E prop they should do about 50mph or so and handle winds up to about 20mph and still have some intresting combat.

I have a Stryker bare foam airframe on the way and will do a short build thread to show how I'm setting it up for survivable streamer combat.
So stay tuned if you are interested, and please join in the discussion with either questions, suggestions, or with reports (and maybe some video) about what is going on in your area.
Last edited by Knife Liddle; Apr 13, 2016 at 01:53 PM.
Apr 06, 2016, 03:39 PM
Sho Nuff Combat Pilot
Dane McGee's Avatar
Thanks Lee for starting this thread. I think that a dedicated electric combat class should be developed so that anyone can buy a commercially available airframe and be able to compete with it right out of the box.

I too plan to buy and test different airframes starting with the Radjet from HK. More to come.
Apr 06, 2016, 05:09 PM
Registered User

E-Combat


Lee,

Good idea trying to spread the word on the electric class, and nice to hear you're back in combat again...maybe see ya @ NATS! I'm more of a glow guy myself, but have been working on a few different ideas for the proposed e-combat class being promoted by the RCCA. The newer Gnat class is a good example of how a fun club combat plane can be turned into an official AMA event. We've been flying the Gnats a long time in WI and has really helped get new pilots into flying combat...myself included!

I saw in your earlier post mention of a 2200 mAh battery. From my understanding the RCCA was more looking at 1000mAh battery size as the max to keep things reasonable. I know Mike Fredricks (aka "Dr. Evil") is flying club combat these days with "Bloody Wonders". My local club has not settled into a specific design yet, but we're just using the parameters of a 1000 mAh limit on battery, use of a prop saver, no sticky stuff, and you have to last a 5 minute round without landing and changing batteries. The RCCA forum shows what Mike Lapacz and myself are working with currently:

http://rccombat.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=14162

Like I said, I enjoy glow more, but have seen very competitive electrics being flown in all the classes, including the Gnats.

Andy "Dr. Kamakaze" Runte
AMA #273119
RCCA #876
FAA # TOO LONG TO REMEMBER!
Apr 06, 2016, 05:54 PM
Lee Liddle
Knife Liddle's Avatar
Hi Andy, yep its been a while since ive been to Muncie, maybe soon.

Well e has come a long way un the last 10 years. Here is the main factor driving my thoughts onairframe and power. Its called wind. You know that stuff that always blows 10mph harder on contest day.

If anything more than casual get togethers are to be planned, let alone a big regional or national meets, then e needs to be viable in 20mph wind and fun in 15mph or less. Otherwise you end up with just a novelty event that is just flown for fun if there is time avaliable and conditions are right.

So, although the little fanfold 2s 1000mah planes are fun in the right conditions, they will never be a true stepping stone for moving into SSC or Open B.

Since an SSC battery, esc and motor can be put together for about $50, less than the cost of a new OS .15, and a RTF Stryker is way more than that, I don't think $10 3s 2200 lipo will stop giys from giving e combat a try.

In fact, my plan is to use components in this class that will also work for eSSC, by simply adding a second lipo and using an SSC airframe like the Falcon or Cobra.

Nothing wrong with the backyard type 2s combat. My feeling is just that we need something bigger. Heck, guys are taking Strykers out and flying full contact with them. I dont think that cost will be a stumbeling block for someone who seriously wants to experiance the thrill of combat.

Stay tuned. Let me show you what I have in mind.
Apr 06, 2016, 06:06 PM
Lee Liddle
Knife Liddle's Avatar
BTW, where is the information about a 1000mah battery size. Im not familiar with that recomendation from anywhere, unless its from the group in Muncie that is flying stuff like that. That size may have made sense 10 years ago when they hammered out their rules, but times have chaged. E power has grown up and spread to be the majority of planes at most AMA club fields. If RCCA is serious about jumping on the E band wagon, then we need to do so looking foward, not duplicating the past.
Last edited by Knife Liddle; Apr 06, 2016 at 06:46 PM. Reason: Fix typos
Apr 06, 2016, 11:31 PM
Lee Liddle
Knife Liddle's Avatar

Power System


Here's the power system I'll start with. This is basically the same as we used for some experimental e warbirds a few years ago. With a 9/6 E prop and set at 9k rpm this will give lots of thrust and speeds in the 50mph range. A good speed for keeping planes this size in close enough to see and execute streamer cuts.

It's just a starting point, but one that has been previously tested with good results. The warbirds were fun and pretty survivable. The main draw back was that they had to be built from scratch, or basic kits. The majority of RC pilots just don't build any more.

The battery is your basic 20c 3s 2200. I've had great luck with this cheap battery from H King, $10.

The esc is a 30a YEP, also from HK. Less than$20.

Any outrunner with a kv of 1000 to 1100 will give rpms in the 9k range and can be adjusted using the EPA on the Tx. The motor should be rated at about 300w and weigh around 100g. HK's Propdrive series are quality motors. This one sells for less than $20.

If you go with the YEP 40a esc for a few more bucks and add a second battery, you have the system that I use to fly both SSC and Limited B, the two most popular RCCA events. So, you can see that this equipment is very versatile, and is interchangeable for many uses in competition. It can all be had for the cost of a single new SSC glow motor.
Apr 07, 2016, 06:44 AM
Sho Nuff Combat Pilot
Dane McGee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knife Liddle
BTW, where is the information about a 1000mah battery size. Im not familiar with that recomendation from anywhere, unless its from the group in Muncie that is flying stuff like that. That size may have made sense 10 years ago when they hammered out their rules, but times have chaged. E power has grown up and spread to be the majority of planes at most AMA club fields. If RCCA is serious about jumping on the E band wagon, then we need to do so looking foward, not duplicating the past.
Lee, I'm not sure there is an official recommendation on the 1000 mah power system ....Will posted it on the Nats thread on the RCCA site...... it was just a place to start for folks bringing electrics to the Nats to test. I'm not bringing any 1000 mah size planes to the Nats. I've been flying them (at dark thirty when the Texas wind lays)for years, and while fun, just not new class material.

Andy, I think any class that is developed must be able to handle 20 mph wind and still be fun without having to fight it.. Look at the Gnat...not very wind friendly, in fact the ENTIRE Nats schedule had to be re-arranged just so the Gnat events could be flown early in the mornings with no wind.
Apr 07, 2016, 07:45 AM
Lee Liddle
Knife Liddle's Avatar
That's good info Dane. Thanks.

I'm sure that since the Muncie group has been flying the 1000 class for years, that seemed like a reasonable place to start. And they knew that they could get enough planes in the air for a good demo.

Hopefully we'll have you some wind capable gear ready to show at the NATS also.
Apr 07, 2016, 11:01 AM
Lee Liddle
Knife Liddle's Avatar
Looks like my Stryker will arrive here Fri (tomorrow). So I should have some flight testing done this weekend.

My total cost will be about $90 including my rx and lipo. That's for all brand new components.
Apr 08, 2016, 10:29 AM
Registered User

RCCA info


Lee,
The 1000 mAh e-class combat has been talked about on the RCCA forum quite a bit lately (not 10 years ago). I know you've been out of the fray for a bit...here are the links from the forum regarding the discussions:

http://rccombat.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=14027

http://rccombat.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=13973

From building & flying the Fast & Furious last year, I am in agreement with you that for about 90% of our contests it is WAY too windy to effectively use it as an event in our contests. That is why I built the Zagi in the link from my original post to see if that handles the wind better and I'm in the process of making a mini Gremlin.

I think the intent of limiting the battery size only to 1000 mAh as the main rule helped make the class more survivable and allowed for a lot of creativity on airplane design. Going to a 2200 mAh battery pack size now opens the door to having an 85mph if not faster bullet that can fly for the necessary 5 minute round. With the ever-changing motors that are available it's impossible to limit the class to only certain motors and that would start to over complicate the rules and take out a lot of the fun. That's why the Gnat event is so popular and fun in my area because the rules are so simple, the plane is very survivable, and costs next to nothing to make (especially around election time with free coroplast). I've been seeing more and more electric setups flown very competitively in SSC, Limited B, and Gnats that are just as fast as their glow counterparts...I just prefer glow and am a slimer at heart.

Maybe the reason the 1000 mAh class has never made it to this point as an RCCA event are for the same reasons we're both talking about...mainly it can't handle much wind. I look forward to your flight report on your new plane! It's been a crummy spring so far in Wisconsin so there hasn't been much flying around here yet...

Andy Runte
-TEAM KAMAKAZE-
AMA #273119
RCCA #876
FAA # TOO LONG TO REMEMBER

P.S.--Looking forward to flying with ya again @ NATS Dane!
Apr 09, 2016, 03:00 AM
Lee Liddle
Knife Liddle's Avatar
Andy, thanks for the links. I had looked through the forum but hadn't found the thread with the guidelines that Chris Gunter is using. Its from 2013, so that's probably why I missed it. I was looking for more current info.

I think (or hope) that eventually there will be several classes of electric combat, just like there are those laid out for the predominantly glow classes. Many don't know it, but there are rules for 1/2A, A, B, C and D classes of Open combat, eventhough only Open B really caught on. The others have been flown by at least some groups over the years.

It seems like the predominant line of thinking by many RCCA members is that an E class should be small and light, and be geared towards beginners and"club event" / "fun fly" type of activities. And I agree that a class like that has its place, and should be promoted.

My focus is on a larger class, with speed and performance more in line with SSC. Something that can be flown in the wind, but with weight, prop, and rpm limits that will keep it from becoming a speed race. Our limited classes (Gnat, SSC, and Limited B) are by far the most popular RCCA events being flown and have shown that a few simple parameters can keep an event from becoming either a technology race or a horsepower race.

Hopefully an ARF airframe combined with a "limited" speed, high thrust power system will be a formula that can work to bring more streamer chasers out to play.


Thread Tools