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Feb 19, 2016, 07:59 AM
FJH
FJH
Registered User
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FrSky Taranis EU version - flashing of RF firmware blocked according ETSI 1.9.1


I just find in German forum that latest February delivery of Taranis are blocked against flashing of RF firmware by users. The Tx are delivered to EU dealers with LBT firmware. This is posted by German premium dealer Engel who got confirmation for this from FrSky directly. So FrSky Tx are now already complying to ETSI 1.9.1 (valid from 01st July 2016) which requires that Tx operation is strictly bound to be compliant to local regulations. Practically FrSky does this by preventing end users from flashing non-compliant RF firmware. Unfortunately this also prevents users to do RF firmware updates themselves if there will be any.

According the information which Engel got from FrSky, all premium dealers will be enabled to do firmware flashing respectively update.
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Feb 19, 2016, 08:19 AM
Registered User
Do you know whether this will also apply to receivers in the future?

Currently I can buy a receiver from a UK company and reflash it with none EU firmware to work with my older Taranis.
Feb 19, 2016, 01:48 PM
Carbo (-nator) ;-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded Flyer
Do you know whether this will also apply to receivers in the future?
No need for it. You always flash the corresponding firmware. If only LBT firmware is possible in the TX, there is only little choice for the RX.
Feb 19, 2016, 02:41 PM
Taranis Tyro...
MattyB's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FJH
I just find in German forum that latest February delivery of Taranis are blocked against flashing of RF firmware by users. The Tx are delivered to EU dealers with LBT firmware. This is posted by German premium dealer Engel who got confirmation for this from FrSky directly. So FrSky Tx are now already complying to ETSI 1.9.1 (valid from 01st July 2016) which requires that Tx operation is strictly bound to be compliant to local regulations. Practically FrSky does this by preventing end users from flashing non-compliant RF firmware. Unfortunately this also prevents users to do RF firmware updates themselves if there will be any.

According the information which Engel got from FrSky, all premium dealers will be enabled to do firmware flashing respectively update.
Can you provide the link to the German forum thread in question?

Surprising decision - they are not obligated to prevent future RF firmware updates, only to reasonably ensure that only EU compliant firmware can be used to update devices sold in the EU. There are plenty of ways they could have done that in software without removing the update functionality completely; I guess maybe they were worried about the community generating a workaround for that.

To most users this probably won't be an issue (new users can use X series LBT RXs only, and existing users just use their estate of D and V8 RXs with their old TX). If there were another regulation change though that required a protocol change the premier dealers are going to be overwhelmed by grumpy consumers wanting their kit updated. Not good.
Last edited by MattyB; Feb 19, 2016 at 02:47 PM.
Feb 19, 2016, 02:56 PM
FJH
FJH
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyB
Can you provide the link to the German forum thread in question?.
Here's the Link to post from FrSky dealer Engel Modellbau Germany => http://fpv-community.de/showthread.p...l=1#post922057
Feb 19, 2016, 04:17 PM
Taranis Tyro...
MattyB's Avatar
Many thanks - English translation of the key post courtesy of Google...

"Hello everybody,

We as importer had these problems and have therefore begun today to deliver again. There were two problems with the last delivery from the beginning of February.

1. Software flash (of OpenTX) not possible with the first part of the delivery. In the second part of the delivery but already.
2. (RF) Firmware flash is not possible in two deliveries

The problem with flashing the new software could be solved by re-uploading the bootloader. Here seems something went wrong at FrSky.

The problem with the firmware we could not solve, and had to wait for response from FrSky. Today we now have the final say. The problem is not a problem as equating the new applicable from 1 July new radio standard ETSI complies with the LBT 300 328 Version 1.9.1. Thus, a customer can not change any more firmware.

According to current knowledge, it is for the Premium Dealer be a possibility in the future to make firmware updates.

Thus FrSky already meets the latest requirements.

Best wishes
Andreas Engel
Engel Modellbau & Technik
"
Last edited by MattyB; Feb 19, 2016 at 09:32 PM.
Feb 19, 2016, 04:33 PM
Taranis Tyro...
MattyB's Avatar
Lots of speculation further on in that thread as to how they have done it (hardware or software) and whether or not it is "beatable". We shall see, but there are a lot of very smart people who like a challenge in the FrSky and OpenTX community - I give it 6 months before this is cracked...
Feb 19, 2016, 04:39 PM
FJH
FJH
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyB
Many thanks - English translation of the key post courtesy of Google...

"Hello everybody,

we as importer had these problems and have therefore begun today to deliver again. There were two problems with the last delivery from the beginning of February.

1. Software flash not possible with the first part of the delivery. In the second part of the delivery but already.
2. Firmware flash is not possible in two deliveries
The problem with flashing the new software could be solved by re-uploading the bootloader. Here seems something went wrong at FrSky.

The problem with the firmware we could not solve, and had to wait for response from FrSky. Today we now have the final say. The problem is not a problem as equating the new applicable from 1 July new radio standard ETSI complies with the LBT 300 328 Version 1.9.1. Thus, a customer can not change any more firmware.

According to current knowledge, it is for the Premium Dealer be a possibility in the future to make firmware updates.

Thus FrSky already meets the latest requirements.

Best wishes
Andreas Engel
Engel Modellbau & Technik"
Hi Matty, may I add some short remark to the translation. Under item 1. Software flash .... is meant flashing of new OpenTx which was not possible for the first part of delivery, for the second part of delivery however flashing was possible. Under item 2. Firmware flash is not possible for both deliveries. Here is meant RF firmware no matter of whatever version.
Feb 19, 2016, 04:51 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyB
Lots of speculation further on in that thread as to how they have done it (hardware or software) and whether or not it is "beatable". We shall see, but there are a lot of very smart people who like a challenge in the FrSky and OpenTX community - I give it 6 months before this is cracked...
Providing the RF firmware isn't now on a chip that can only be updated by special tool, but Futaba and Spektrum have EU specific updates that their radios sold in the EU can access without accessing the international RF firmware. Seems like Frsky haven't been too sharp on this it obviously possible to make transmitters enabled to only accept certain versions of RF firmware, maybe that will come in 9 months or so

Incidentally there's another thread on another forum where 14sg users are afraid to update their Tx because it then wouldn't run the Frsky FASST compatibles they have and they are concerned that they can't buy Frsky FASST receivers in the EU anymore that work with the pre-2015 Futaba FASST.
Feb 19, 2016, 09:17 PM
Taranis Tyro...
MattyB's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FJH
Hi Matty, may I add some short remark to the translation. Under item 1. Software flash .... is meant flashing of new OpenTx which was not possible for the first part of delivery, for the second part of delivery however flashing was possible. Under item 2. Firmware flash is not possible for both deliveries. Here is meant RF firmware no matter of whatever version.
Thanks - have tweaked original post to make this clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankS
Providing the RF firmware isn't now on a chip that can only be updated by special tool, but Futaba and Spektrum have EU specific updates that their radios sold in the EU can access without accessing the international RF firmware. Seems like Frsky haven't been too sharp on this it obviously possible to make transmitters enabled to only accept certain versions of RF firmware, maybe that will come in 9 months or so
Completely agree - this is an inelegant solution, and I don't think we are at the end of this particular story yet...

PS - I wonder if this will also be the way they handle the proposed US regs changes around actively preventing non-compliant firmware updates too? I can see this making it hard for their EU dealers to sell product vs grey imports with Int'l (and upgradeable) FW unless they implement similar restrictions internationally...
Last edited by MattyB; Feb 20, 2016 at 03:49 AM.
Feb 20, 2016, 03:14 AM
Registered User
Of course this could all be a marketing ploy by Frsky to make sure they get lots of forum threads and posts, I've never seen a single thread on some other brands RF firmware.
Feb 20, 2016, 03:54 AM
Registered User
Not sure if I understand all the side effects of this action , but please someone explain us how can the new radio enforcement can prevent me to use an external XJT having any firmware I want ?
Last edited by renatoa; Feb 20, 2016 at 04:05 AM.
Feb 20, 2016, 04:24 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by renatoa
Not sure if I understand all the side effects of this action , but please someone explain us how can the new radio enforcement can prevent me to use an external XJT having any firmware I want ?
Nothing as long as you import it from outside the EU and take responsibility as importer. By the sounds of it though it looks like US regs are also changing to lock the firmware, if Frsky decide to have separate systems for EU and US then you'd have to buy the US specific module to get the alternative firmware.
Feb 20, 2016, 05:13 AM
Registered User
Let's be serious, do you take any REAL IMPORT responsibility when you buy any RF device as a private person ?
Like, for example do not root an Android device ?
What about the unlocked firmwares of linksys wifi routers that floats around ?
Any known case so far of someone prosecuted for unlocking a RF device in EU ?
Last edited by renatoa; Feb 20, 2016 at 08:37 AM.
Feb 20, 2016, 08:18 AM
FJH
FJH
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by renatoa
What about the unlocked firmwares of linksys wifi routers that floats around ?
That's exactly where this limitation found its origin into the ETSI regulation with the primary goal to stop flashing routers with other firmware than provided by origin supplier. And yes routers are also affected,

Quote:
Originally Posted by renatoa
Like, for example do not root an Android device ?
Same is with Smartphones, also affected by this ETSI 1.9.1 regulation.

And unfortunately our RC hobby is in the same boat


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