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Jan 19, 2016, 06:05 PM
Taranis Tyro...
MattyB's Avatar
Discussion

FrSky RF firmwares discussion (International, EU and EU LBT)


Following on from various discussions elsewhere in this forum in recent weeks, here is a thread for discussing the different FrSky RF firmwares available, issues and new developments. I will post some key reference links to start the discussion (newest first)...Some non-brand specific threads on the ETSI regulation changes since Jan 2015...FrSky RF firmwares for download...OpenTX...
Last edited by MattyB; May 13, 2016 at 04:11 PM.
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Jan 19, 2016, 06:06 PM
Taranis Tyro...
MattyB's Avatar
Timeline to date...Future events...
  • June 16th 2016 - EU directive 2014/53/EU comes into force preventing the updating of devices transmitting RF with non-compliant firmware; this will prevent FrSky devices sold in the EU from being updated with International RF firmware. 1 years grace will be given to distributors to dispose of existing stock. Thread link.
  • Nov 30th 2016 - ETSI EN 300 328 v1.9.1 comes into force in the EU.
Last edited by MattyB; Feb 19, 2016 at 08:28 PM.
Jan 20, 2016, 03:47 AM
Taranis Tyro...
MattyB's Avatar
Post two updated with timeline to date and key future events.
Jan 20, 2016, 08:12 AM
Registered User
Just a post to subscribe!
Jan 20, 2016, 09:18 AM
Registered User
1275mini's Avatar
Watching with interest !!
Jan 20, 2016, 09:32 AM
Taranis Tyro...
MattyB's Avatar
So I spot of hypothesising; I believe the above suggests...
  • Users who have a TX with D8 mode can continue to use it legally in the EU. However new items with D8 mode cannot be legally sold in the EU moving forward.
  • All Taranis TXs and XJT TX modules sold to date (whether sold with EU or International firmware) are capable of being updated to EU LBT WITH D8 mode if you follow the correct procedure. However...
  • The legality of the buyer taking a post Jan 2015 TX on EU RF firmware and putting it on International is questionable - it is not 100% clear whether the ETSI regulations apply only to the seller and importer, or whether the buyer is also in scope.
  • FrSky seem certain to prevent the flashing on non-EU compliant hardware to TXs and modules sold after June 2016 to comply with the new EU directive; this will be done at the module hardware layer, not OpenTX.
  • This means that EU Horus and Taranis TXs after that time will not have a D8 mode, but will have D16 EU LBT and L9R EU LBT only.
What do you think?
Jan 20, 2016, 09:52 AM
Registered User
BS is what I think !

D8 series share same hardware as Hitec, Graupner and Futaba S-FHSS receivers... How the heck they are legal, some without any update and Frsky is not, even they were warned, I have talks with them since Feb 2013 about the coming V1.8 and they were aware... ?!
Is it necessary to create an aftermarket D8 to demonstrate to Frsky that this is possible ? Mr. Simon Chambers just wait the order

For me is simply marketing, they prefer to sell a $35 X8 instead a $23 D8, both having same production cost...
We made them great with our wallets and now they act accordingly, as the big brands, inflating prices to be in the same league.
Jan 20, 2016, 10:01 AM
Registered User
bags's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyB
it is not 100% clear whether the ETSI regulations apply only to the seller and importer, or whether the buyer is also in scope.
hi matt
a buyer purchasing from outside EU to deliver within the EU effectively becomes an importer whether or not they are intending to use personally or resell.
Jan 20, 2016, 10:06 AM
Registered User
This outside EU limit is very fuzzy...
For example stuff sold at HK EU warehouse, is not ok fiscally, even the seller apparently is located in NL, inside EU, and packages are delivered at home, without any customs.
The invoices don't contain any VAT, for example, and can't be used by a company accounting.
So, who is importer in this case ?
Jan 20, 2016, 10:12 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by bags
hi matt
a buyer purchasing from outside EU to deliver within the EU effectively becomes an importer whether or not they are intending to use personally or resell.
Matty was referring to the fact that you could now buy an EU compliant Tx and then update it to a none compliant system just by downloading the international firmware, it's to close this loophole that the regs are changing again so that manufacturers ensure that hardware sold in the EU can only be updated with compliant firmware.

From June 2016 the only way to be able to use the international firmware will be to import the gear yourself and that may carry some risks of being held up by customs (some countries are hotter on this than others). Also would the official Frsky EU importers/dealers service/repair non-EU equipment and if they did would it come back updated.
Jan 20, 2016, 10:14 AM
Registered User
bags's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by renatoa
This outside EU limit is very fuzzy...
For example stuff sold at HK EU warehouse, is not ok fiscally, even the seller apparently is located in NL, inside EU, and packages are delivered at home, without any customs.
The invoices don't contain any VAT, for example, and can't be used by a company accounting.
So, who is importer in this case ?
the buyer is considered the importer if you take it from the point of where the payment is sent from and where it is accepted.
As a retailer you can stock none CE certified equipment within the EU but you can not sell it within the EU

the regulations are to regulate the manufacturer, the supplier and the purchaser (exporter and importer)
Last edited by bags; Jan 20, 2016 at 10:21 AM.
Jan 20, 2016, 11:02 AM
Registered User
bags's Avatar
Got yer......the regulations slap control by CE certification and controlling equipment that will be imported and exported from the dates of them changing the requirements.

they can not regulate equipment in existance and current use, thats down to our ruling bodies and insurers if they decide to impliment restrictions on the use of none CE equipment, as far as i know they never have done before?!?
Last edited by bags; Jan 20, 2016 at 12:24 PM.
Jan 20, 2016, 11:16 AM
Sagitta Fanboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by renatoa
BS is what I think !

D8 series share same hardware as Hitec, Graupner and Futaba S-FHSS receivers... How the heck they are legal, some without any update and Frsky is not, even they were warned, I have talks with them since Feb 2013 about the coming V1.8 and they were aware... ?!
Is it necessary to create an aftermarket D8 to demonstrate to Frsky that this is possible ? Mr. Simon Chambers just wait the order

For me is simply marketing, they prefer to sell a $35 X8 instead a $23 D8, both having same production cost...
We made them great with our wallets and now they act accordingly, as the big brands, inflating prices to be in the same league.
The problem isn't a hardware issue, but a protocol issue. Hitec/Graupner/Futaba S/T-FHSS were already compliant, but D8 wasn't.

Is it possible to modify D8 to be compliant? Almost assuredly. But it's a legacy protocol for FrSky, Since any update would require new firmware for users, and the Rx's can continue to be sold to users with legacy D8 Tx's, there's little reason for FrSky to update the protocol since that would break compatibility with the same legacy gear that D8 production exists to support today.

FrSky is in the position of either breaking its installed base, or creating a speed bump In its upgrade path. Since only the old DxT modules don't support X16, FrSky has chosen not to break older users and instead limiting new EU production to the new Rx's.

A hard decision, but I think FrSky took the best route.
Jan 20, 2016, 12:27 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by renatoa
We made them great with our wallets and now they act accordingly, as the big brands, inflating prices to be in the same league.
once you get success you have the right to raise the price. business rules.
Jan 20, 2016, 12:35 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by mawz
The problem isn't a hardware issue, but a protocol issue. Hitec/Graupner/Futaba S/T-FHSS were already compliant, but D8 wasn't.

Is it possible to modify D8 to be compliant? Almost assuredly. But it's a legacy protocol for FrSky, Since any update would require new firmware for users, and the Rx's can continue to be sold to users with legacy D8 Tx's, there's little reason for FrSky to update the protocol since that would break compatibility with the same legacy gear that D8 production exists to support today.

FrSky is in the position of either breaking its installed base, or creating a speed bump In its upgrade path. Since only the old DxT modules don't support X16, FrSky has chosen not to break older users and instead limiting new EU production to the new Rx's.

A hard decision, but I think FrSky took the best route.
I don't get your point... wasn't already a protocol change for X series receivers at 1st january 2015?
I remind you that even X series wasn't compliant from the start, why was possible for them and not for D series ?
Changing firmwares is a fact of life for Frsky, there were 4 or 5 firmwares since 2010 for D series, is nothing unusual, not as for the other brands who don't let their customers to perform this task.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radikal
once you get success you have the right to raise the price. business rules.
And be penalty as well... with the wallet, but I am afraid the today crowd that buy them knows nothing about how this company was grown and how different is it today...


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