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Jan 07, 2016, 09:25 AM
Non Fragosus
jackcutrone's Avatar
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1909 Wright Military Flyer - Dare Kit - Pat Tritle design


This is my first balsa build, so I expect to learn a lot and undoubtedly make a few mistakes. Some of the pressure is off, since I am building it as a static model since my wife wants to hang it in our living room. I hope that does not disqualify this thread from the forum. Also. a disclaimer, since I am a first time builder, I undoubtedly will include things that people are experienced will consider obvious.

The specs for the kit:
Wing Span: 41.5"
Plane Length: Length: 31.75"
Wing Area: 530 sq. in.
Weight: 14.1 ounces.
Wing loading: 3.8 oz/sq. ft.

The Dare kit features all laser cut parts, covering tissue, full size plans, AAA quality balsa and hardwoods, according to the Brodak website which currently sells the kit.

The first step was opening the box and taking an inventory of the contents.

I separated the balsa and basswood sticks and matched them against the parts list that come with the plans. It listed parts by dimension first and then description. It might have been easier for me as a beginner had the list put all the 1/8 sticks together, the 3/32 sticks together, the 1/4 sticks together. As it was, it jumped around on sizes and I had to go back and forth trying to match the parts to the list. The other thing that threw me at first was the fact that all the sticks were longer than the description, some substantially so, but then I realized that they are just cutting them off stock balsa and they will be as long as the stock. Also, not having had any experience at this, I had to look very closely to distinguish the balsa from the basswood sticks - yes, that's how much of a beginner I am.

When I got done grouping and labeling the sticks, I had two sticks left over. I went over everything again, twice, to make sure I hadn't missed something. Better to have a part or two extra, than be short a part.
Last edited by jackcutrone; Jan 10, 2016 at 11:33 AM.
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Jan 07, 2016, 10:51 AM
Retired and Lovin' it!
TPfingston's Avatar
Good luck with this project, even if it is for static display. Looking forward to watching your construction.

Tony
Jan 07, 2016, 11:16 AM
Non Fragosus
jackcutrone's Avatar
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December 31, 2015


My next step was to study the instructions, the plan, and the parts. I had to go through all of that three or four times to try and get a good idea of all the steps. I think the plans were probably written for people with experience in building. Since this was my first build, not everything was obvious to me. For example, when the plans said join the spar, leading edge and trailing edge parts with a scarf joint, I had no idea what that meant. After an internet search, I do now.

The plans call for the wings to be built first. So I cut out the plan for the wing and laid it down on my building board (celotex ceiling tile), and covered the plan with wax paper. There was a discussion in another thread about the glue to be used, some saying that CA was more brittle and aliphatic more flexible. Since this is going to be a static model, I opted for the CA as it dries more quickly and I would not have to leave things pinned to the board to dry. (I know some people use saran wrap, but I was concerned about the glue sticking to the wrap.)

Next I removed the laser cut ribs from the wooden plate from which they were cut. Not being sure what I was going to end up covering it with, I sanded edges of all the ribs to remove the dark brown burnt edge. Wasn't sure if that was necessary. The kit comes with tissue for covering, but since it is going to be a static model, I am leaning toward covering it with thin white or off-white cloth or something that looks like cloth to stay in keeping with the original.

The first of the instructions called for joining the spar with a scarf joint, followed by the leading and trailing edges, also joined that way. Now that I know what a scarf joint is, I did so.
Last edited by jackcutrone; Jan 10, 2016 at 11:34 AM.
Jan 07, 2016, 11:32 AM
Senile Member
Lnagel's Avatar
You may have found this out already, but wax paper is fine with aliphatic however Saran Wrap should be used with CA. CA readily sticks to wax paper but will not adhere to the Saran wrap.

Larry
Jan 07, 2016, 11:33 AM
Non Fragosus
jackcutrone's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by TPfingston
Good luck with this project, even if it is for static display. Looking forward to watching your construction.

Tony
Thanks Tony
Jan 07, 2016, 11:35 AM
Non Fragosus
jackcutrone's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lnagel
Wax paper is alright with aliphatic, but Saran wrap is recommended when using CA because the CA readily sticks to wax paper but will not adhere to the Saran wrap.

Larry
So much for my thinking processes - LOL. I did experience some of the CA sticking to the waxpaper, will try saran wrap.

This is great. I look at this as a learning experience and comments are helpful.
Jan 07, 2016, 11:41 AM
Non Fragosus
jackcutrone's Avatar
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January 2, 2016


I pinned the spar to the board and started gluing in the W-1 ribs for the first wing. I am using pins to line them up over the plan and then using some House of Balsa Upright 90 Degree Alignment Jig (plastic) to ensure that they are perpendicular. I also figured out why the instructions say to use scrap 1/16" balsa shims at various points under the spar. The edges of the ribs will extend below the spar. I got most of them done for the first wing.
Last edited by jackcutrone; Jan 07, 2016 at 12:01 PM.
Jan 07, 2016, 12:04 PM
Retired and Lovin' it!
TPfingston's Avatar

RE: Tissue versus woven fabric


At this scale, it is doubtful if the weave of fabric would be visible but I understand your desire to keep it as realistic as possible. I have very little experience with actual fabric and only limited experience with various tissues (mostly polyspan). I think, however, that I would consider looking for a very fine weave silk for a project such as this. One source for this is: http://www.thaisilks.com/index.php?cPath=1 I have not personally tried this source but I have seen it recommended here on RCGroups.

Tony
Last edited by TPfingston; Jan 07, 2016 at 12:13 PM.
Jan 07, 2016, 12:45 PM
Non Fragosus
jackcutrone's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by TPfingston
At this scale, it is doubtful if the weave of fabric would be visible but I understand your desire to keep it as realistic as possible. I have very little experience with actual fabric and only limited experience with various tissues (mostly polyspan). I think, however, that I would consider looking for a very fine weave silk for a project such as this. One source for this is: http://www.thaisilks.com/index.php?cPath=1 I have not personally tried this source but I have seen it recommended here on RCGroups.

Tony
thanks - will give them a look.

Jack
Jan 07, 2016, 07:05 PM
Non Fragosus
jackcutrone's Avatar
Thread OP

January 4, 2016


Sanded down the W2-W4 ribs. Glued them into place. When I examined the ribs, I discovered the some of them were a hair too long and even though they lined up with the trailing edge drawn on the plan, they ran a little over the line for the leading edge. I trimmed the excess with an exacto knife. Per the instructions, I glued on leading edge. At the leading edge, a few of the ribs required a small shim, even though the trailing edge lined up. It was probably my fault – it usually is. Mistake #1

The instructions then call for the trailing edge to be glued into place. However, the piece identified as W-7 on the plan, is tapered at the place where it meets the straight part of the trailing edge. The taper gets pretty thin and in fact, I broke off a small piece when I was sanding it. Mistake #2. I glued it back together. I decided that rather than glue the straight part of the trailing edge in and then try to slide in the W-7 part, that I would put the W-7 parts down, the straight part of the trailing edge down and glue them together. I then glued on the trailing edge to the back of the main ribs (W-1). When I examined the the W2-W4 ribs, those being the ones toward the tips of the wings, I discovered that those also ran a little over the line on the drawing for both the straight trailing edge and W-7. I trimmed those with an exacto knife. But I trimmed them perpendicular to the rib rather than take into account the curve of W-7. Mistake #3. I edited this post to include a picture showing part W7 on the plans to make more sense of this paragraph.

When I trimmed the tips of the leading and trailing edges, I left some excess to be sanded off later. The instructions then called for a piece of 1/8” x 1/8” balsa to be put on the outer edge of the wing tip. I went to the sticks I had and found one that was 1/8 x 1/8. It seemed to be basswood rather than balsa, so I went back to the parts list and looked to see if there was a second piece of 1/8 x 1/8 made of balsa. I did not find one and so I cut the piece I had found to the approximate size I needed. Mistake #4 Indeed, there were two 1/8 x 1/8 sticks described in the parts list, but I only found the basswood one and missed the four balsa ones. I checked later and found that the remaining 1/8 x 1/8 basswood stick was not long enough to make both sides of the fuselage, as called for in the plans. I checked with the local Hobbytown but they did not have any. I did find some at Menard’s, 6 pieces for $1.89 but they don’t stock it, so I had to order it to be shipped. Mistake #4 cost $6.89 in parts and shipping.
Last edited by jackcutrone; Jan 17, 2016 at 11:01 PM.
Jan 07, 2016, 09:12 PM
Neophyte hacker
portablevcb's Avatar
If you plan on building more, then get at least one sheet of each thickness of hard balsa and bass. Then, when you need a stray stick or two, just slice one off the proper sheet.

Your mistakes aren't anything the rest of us haven't done

charlie
Jan 07, 2016, 09:56 PM
Non Fragosus
jackcutrone's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by portablevcb
If you plan on building more, then get at least one sheet of each thickness of hard balsa and bass. Then, when you need a stray stick or two, just slice one off the proper sheet.

Your mistakes aren't anything the rest of us haven't done

charlie
I do plan on building more, so I will follow your suggestion. I am kind of looking at this one as practice since it will be a static model.
Jan 08, 2016, 03:41 PM
Ochroma Pyramidale Tekton
Fly Wheel's Avatar
Not exactly the type of plane I would choose for a first time build, the "Pioneer Age" planes tend to be very fragile to begin with, and Pat's especially so as he tends to go with very light wood, coming from a free flight background. But you seem to be handling it pretty good so far!

Here are a couple of tips I have learned:

1. instead of waxed paper I use clear plastic painter's cloth (at least 2 mil). None of the adhesives we use sticks to it; not aliphatic, not CA, not even epoxy. It is completely clear, and if your table is big enough you don't have to cut up your plans because it's large enough to cover the whole thing. Also wax paper in recent years have seemed to have gotten skimpy on the wax, I have had aliphatic stick to it on occasion.

2. When all of your ribs are the same size then its usually better to stack and clamp them together (use one of the spar grooves to line them up) and then sand all of them at once. Not only is this faster but it also helps to insure they all come out the exact same size/shape.

Great build, I am enjoying this much.
Jan 08, 2016, 03:51 PM
Registered User
Steve Merrill's Avatar
Have you read the David McCullough book about the Wright Bros? I am about 1/2 way through, very good book, all the trails and failures the brothers went through to be successful is amazing.
Jan 09, 2016, 09:15 AM
Non Fragosus
jackcutrone's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly Wheel
Not exactly the type of plane I would choose for a first time build, the "Pioneer Age" planes tend to be very fragile to begin with, and Pat's especially so as he tends to go with very light wood, coming from a free flight background. But you seem to be handling it pretty good so far!

Here are a couple of tips I have learned:

1. instead of waxed paper I use clear plastic painter's cloth (at least 2 mil). None of the adhesives we use sticks to it; not aliphatic, not CA, not even epoxy. It is completely clear, and if your table is big enough you don't have to cut up your plans because it's large enough to cover the whole thing. Also wax paper in recent years have seemed to have gotten skimpy on the wax, I have had aliphatic stick to it on occasion.

2. When all of your ribs are the same size then its usually better to stack and clamp them together (use one of the spar grooves to line them up) and then sand all of them at once. Not only is this faster but it also helps to insure they all come out the exact same size/shape.

Great build, I am enjoying this much.
I did start using saran wrap for the second wing at Larry Nagel's suggestion and it worked a lot better than the wax paper. I also have some thin plastic painter's tarp around, so will try that.

Clamp them all together and then sand them to uniform size - great suggestion - duh - why didn't I think of that?
Last edited by jackcutrone; Jan 10, 2016 at 11:38 AM.


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