Bat 2 from Windrider - RC Groups
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Jan 06, 2016, 09:01 AM
Ming's Avatar
Discussion

Bat 2 from Windrider


Is time come back to the slope.
60 inch wingspan

Ming Lou
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Jan 06, 2016, 11:09 AM
Objects in mirror are losing
1000MPH's Avatar
I'm not excited about the sweep. I guess I was hoping for something more like an EPP Gizmo.
Maybe Tim would allow a licensed EPP version?
Jan 06, 2016, 01:26 PM
Obsessed
screamin' eagle's Avatar
I feel the same way. I think these are really tricky planforms to get to fly correctly and make them flutter-proof.

I remember reading that Andrew put sweep into the Lumberjack to keep it from tucking at high speed. I then struggled for more than a year trying to reinforce the swept design to make it stiff enough to DS, but the plane kept folding at around 130mph no matter how much carbon was in there. It was like a sudden full-body flutter that would instantly destroy the plane without warning.

The Bluto seems to have tapped into that secret somehow.
Jan 06, 2016, 01:37 PM
Registered User
taurineman's Avatar
A 60" Bat with the same platform as the original Bat would be wicked! Id buy them. But please include balsa elevons, and a single centre balsa fin.
Jan 07, 2016, 05:03 AM
608 km/h!
josh18's Avatar
I modded one of my bats to almost the same planform. It seemed very fast but I was too inexperienced and broke it before I could really tell how it went. I also had a super frak mod bat and that was great too.
Problem with the original bat is it takes too much lead to balance but with a central fin it will have better yaw stability than this design. The advantage of this new design is it will be able to be made much lighter.
I reckon from flying the two the straight trailing edge is the best compromise.
Ming, are you planning to remove the reflex out of the airfoil? As that seemed to be a necessary for any go fast Bat.
Cheers- looks really promising
Jan 07, 2016, 08:10 AM
Ming's Avatar
Quote:
A 60" Bat with the same platform as the original Bat would be wicked! Id buy them. But please include balsa elevons, and a single centre balsa fin.
Most of your expert's suggestions will apply into this wings.
Thanks for your support so far.
I can disclose that I need to sell many thousands of this wings to make my tooling investment back, but this is not my only consideration, I just want to make a good wings your guys would like.

Ming Lou

Ming
Jan 07, 2016, 08:12 AM
Ming's Avatar
Quote:
I modded one of my bats to almost the same planform. It seemed very fast but I was too inexperienced and broke it before I could really tell how it went. I also had a super frak mod bat and that was great too.
Problem with the original bat is it takes too much lead to balance but with a central fin it will have better yaw stability than this design. The advantage of this new design is it will be able to be made much lighter.
I reckon from flying the two the straight trailing edge is the best compromise.
Ming, are you planning to remove the reflex out of the airfoil? As that seemed to be a necessary for any go fast Bat.
Cheers- looks really promising
Last 20 Bat remain in stock.

Ming Lou
Jan 07, 2016, 02:23 PM
Remember... Fly for fun!
ALEX HEWSON's Avatar
Really commend you for looking for advice to make the new design a great one!

Some of the guys here have built a LOT of wings in the search for optimum performance. 1000mph is one of the top guys, if not the best in this regard.

Am sure we can help you the best we can and am sure the guys would be happy to give suggestions from experience. Looking forward to seeing some changes from the initial design
Jan 07, 2016, 10:01 PM
Ming's Avatar
Your input is so important.

Ming Lou
Jan 07, 2016, 11:31 PM
Registered User
taurineman's Avatar
Ming - The original Bat took a lot of modification to get it to fly fast reliably. But once done, it is by far my favourite foamy to DS. I've taken one to 164mph (current record, IIRC), and there is a lot more in it - im just too much of a DS clutz to do them justice. To see a 60" version would be awesome. So if you want to built a all-out DS foamy with it, these are the things i would like to see:
- i like the original planform. I have built and flown the straight trailing edge predator version and i think the original planform handles better.
- perhaps a longer delta section in the middle to make it easier to get more weight up front.
- servo pockets in the middle of the aileron (or as close as possible). Servo pockets to accept a full size servo.
- a denser/better EPP foam. The current EPP is too crumbly.
- single center fin mounted on a carbon boom to set it 4" or so further back than stock.
- Balsa elevons - we would glass/carbon bag them
- a drag spar. Spruce would be easiest for you, but i would replace with glass or carbon flats.
- get rid of the excessive reflex on the fixed section.
- a vastly better spar system. My preference is for two full-length 5mm glass rods with one slot running along top surface, the other directly underneath on the bottom surface. Perhaps even double that - so we have 2 on top surface and 2 on bottom surface in the under/over arrangement.
- perhaps a version which comes with lam-film/new-stuff?
- bottom hinged/top-driven elevons. Optionally with bottom drive on the servos with linkage passing through the wing and out the top surface.

There - that would be my perfect DS foamy
Jan 07, 2016, 11:48 PM
It's Cody Reed!
Mr.Runster's Avatar
I second Taurineman's recommendations. That would be a sweet DS plank.
Jan 07, 2016, 11:54 PM
Ming's Avatar
Balsa elevons will provide
8mm main spar X 2
Reduce reflex
Center fin or two fins are optional choice
Keep to use standard side servo
Control horn on middle on elevon

All your suggestions are so valuable!

Ming Lou




Ming
Jan 08, 2016, 01:08 AM
It's Cody Reed!
Mr.Runster's Avatar
Also should have a carbon or fiberglass subspar for the trailing edge.
Jan 08, 2016, 02:06 AM
Registered User
taurineman's Avatar
Please don't do single spar which runs in the middle like the current Bat. Have surface slots top and bottom using thinner glass rods. It's vastly superior in stiffness.
Jan 08, 2016, 05:06 AM
608 km/h!
josh18's Avatar
Hey guys. Apart from the reflex which could be removed in the mould, I reckon the beauty of the original Bat was that it could be made to go fast but was really cheap. I dont think it needs all those above mods out of the box. All those mods can be easily done by the builder for DS and the average buyer can build it stock with all the light spars etc. The JW DS spec etc are great because all the gear is there but they cost a fortune because of that.
For me all that needs do be done is the planform re-jigged a bit, the reflex reduced and I think the old elevons were too large in chord.
As far as planform is concerned I agree with Taurineman in keeping the slightly forward swept trailing edge cut some how extend the nose a bit. Removing the reflex moves the CG back a bit anyway. Because it's moulded, why not give it curved wing tips and nose. These are more slippery, most guys round off the tips anyway and curved corners stand up to abuse much better than pointy ones.
Having minimal DS spec mods in the stock plane will help Ming sell more as most wont go to the extreme. It just needs to have the fundamentals right.
Cheers


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