I was in beginner mode. Shortly after takeoff, probably less than 15 seconds, I began turning to the left. It began turning as usual but when it had turned just over 90 degrees to the left it rolled over and began flying inverted. I hit the panick button and makde sure it was in mode 0 but nothing changed. The rudder and elevators were responding but the ailerons were not. It was locked into perfectly level inverted flight. I thought the servo wire may have become disconnected. It was headed towards houses but still over a field with trees, and since I have very little inverted flight experience, I cut throttle and let it crash. Thankfully it slowed and hit some trees and the only damage is tearing of the Styrofoam wings where the plastic reinforcements are.

I went to the area where it crashed but was unable to find it at first. I tried moving the ailerons but there was no sound at all, further leading me to believe the servo cable had disconnected. After hitting the throttle a couple times I found it and was able to shake it out of the tree. The ailerons were jittering like they do when they're trying to keep level in beginner mode, but they were trying to keep it inverted and ignoring the transmitter. Normally, in beginner mode, inverting the plane causes the ailerons to go into a full left or right roll. Something caused this thing to forget its orientation. I did a power cycle and had no more problems for about 10 minutes of flight before I went back home. I've emailed eflite about it and am hoping for some info from them to troubleshoot or maybe tell me what went wrong.

Does anyone have any advice, experience, etc? It seems safe to fly but I'm worried it might happen again. I've owned it about a month and it has maybe 3 hours flight time on it.

My advice. Scrap the safe system. It takes control out of your hands. Anything can happen and you will not figure it out.

Originally Posted by tacx

My advice. Scrap the safe system. It takes control out of your hands. Anything can happen and you will not figure it out.

You may not need or want the SAFE system but from the number of people praising the technology for its gentle introduction to flight outweigh the few clamoring to scrap it.

This is the downside to things like safe - when they go wrong, they really go wrong and you don't have the control to sort it out. Hopefully eflite will send you new parts do you don't loose out - it wasn't your fault.

First RTFM!!!!! Safe is a very finicky system and demands that you do it right or it bites. It is possible that you didn't power up your plane properly and it was unable to orient itself before takeoff.

Second, contact Horizon. Tell them what you have done including Ring TFM to make sure you are not the cause of the problem. They will probably send you a new receiver just to make sure, but only after you've done everything on your end to eliminate human error as the cause of the mishap.

Don't lose your cool when talking to them. Listen carefully and respond appropriately. Ask them to help you. They have a great customer service department but saying the wrong thing with the wrong attitude can result in bad things.

Finally if your spider senses tell you that you're not getting anywhere, hang up and call again to get another rep. Changing people often gets you results.

The only thing I can think of, could you have forgotten to turn the switch on the airplane to off when putting the battery in and connecting it?

If so, the Safe system would have powered up and initialized when you plugged the battery in. Since the battery hatch is on the bottom, I'd assume the plane would have then been upside down when Safe powered up and initialized, which is when it "learns" what right side up and level is...

In other words, when Safe self levels either in beginner mode or panic, it puts the plane into the attitude it was in when the gyros initial idled upon power up.

Where is the receiver mounted in the Apprentice and with side is up? I have the Apprentice receiver mounted in my Sport Cub and I routinely plug in the battery and let it initialize while the plane is upside down. My receiver is located with the top of the receiver facing up so upside down is truly upside down for the receiver and it still has never gone inverted on it's own and held it there.

Spend some time reading Suenaga's Eflite SAFE in another airplane thread. Through much research I think he's found every way to confuse SAFE and a set of requirements over and above the published instructions on how to make sure it functions properly. That thread is pure gold for owners of SAFE airplanes.

I am wondering too if the switch was still in advanced mode. I believe in beginner mode the plane should only bank to a certain level. It should be almost near impossible for it to allow you to bank to the point of becoming inverted. I would see if you can replicate the situation first and double and maybe triple check everything.

When it was banking/turning... did it flip to inverted fast or slow?

Also, when you recovered it was the receiver loose or snug in its place?

Originally Posted by Trisnpod

This is the downside to things like safe - when they go wrong, they really go wrong and you don't have the control to sort it out. Hopefully eflite will send you new parts do you don't loose out - it wasn't your fault.

Because things never go wrong with non-SAFE, non AS3X receiver, right?

Originally Posted by Flipper35

Because things never go wrong with non-SAFE, non AS3X receiver, right?

So that almost sounds like a rhetorical question; of course things go wrong with plain vanilla receivers.

But everything that can go wrong with a plain vanilla receiver probably can also go wrong with a SAFE/AS3X Rx. So, the complete list of things that can go wrong with a SAFE/AS3X Rx is longer than the list for plain vanilla Rx.

I've recently tried to upgrade 2 planes with gyros (Eagle Tree Guardian, Eagle A3 ) and I've found that proper/safe use of both requires a higher level of skill than a beginner usually possesses when starting out.

Regards

As an instructor I've found that probably the biggest problem with these systems is the fact that the people DIDN'T READ and understand the instructions . Then there is the problem with the CROWs on the back fence . lol ENJOY !!! RED

Originally Posted by Grup

So that almost sounds like a rhetorical question; of course things go wrong with plain vanilla receivers.

But everything that can go wrong with a plain vanilla receiver probably can also go wrong with a SAFE/AS3X Rx. So, the complete list of things that can go wrong with a SAFE/AS3X Rx is longer than the list for plain vanilla Rx.

I've recently tried to upgrade 2 planes with gyros (Eagle Tree Guardian, Eagle A3 ) and I've found that proper/safe use of both requires a higher level of skill than a beginner usually possesses when starting out.

Regards

I would agree that for something not programmed out of the box for a specific airframe there is too many adjustments a beginner wouldn't understand properly. Like getting a brand new Holley Dominator with no jets and the idle screws one turn out but with a jet kit sitting alongside.

I was only trying to make the point that there could be any number of things that can happen regardless of the amount of tech.

It's already been mentioned, but worth repeating I think...

My first guess would be that there was a failure for the gyros/accelerometers in the SAFE receiver to initialize properly. I'm pretty sure I've caused similar type of issues back when I was flying my Apprentice with it's SAFE setup. Heck, I even managed to crash one of my larger FPV gliders which is setup with a much more sophisticated autopilot/OSD (RVOSD) because on that particular occasion I moved the plane while the sensors were still initializing. As could be seen from my DVR recording of the on-screen-display, when I took off the gyros/sensors correctly showed my plane at *almost* a correct orientation but it was unstable. Only a few minutes into the flight the gyros/sensors/algorithm decided that my plane should be upside down in order to be level... so it took control from me and flew the plane straight into the ground..... all because I moved the plane too much during that critical startup/intialization process of the sensors...

In other words... operator error in failing to follow the startup/initialization related instructions carefully enough.

Might not be what happened here, but I'd venture it's a good guess....