Thread Tools
This thread is privately moderated by GottaZoom, who may elect to delete unwanted replies.
Dec 07, 2015, 07:42 PM
Up! Up! And Away!
GottaZoom's Avatar
Thread OP
Data

Pro180 motor and prop tests


DESCRIPTION
Xtreme Productions Pro180 motor test, using Delta Ray and some larger props. Includes HobbyZone Delta Ray 180 motor/prop baseline comparison.

Static tests completed using a HobbyWing brushed ESC instead of the Delta Ray SAFE receiver with 2 integrated ESCs.


BACKGROUND
The Delta Ray motors are very well suited to a beginner. Once the beginner has learned to control the Delta Ray they may feel ready to increase power.

The Pro180s are a nearly direct swap for the original equipment manufacturer motors, the increased power draw burnt out a mosfet for one of my flying buddies who made the motor change. Since I am not aware of the power limits to the SAFE brick, I've decided to use an external ESC for testing. For this reason, I cannot recommend any motor or prop change to the oem Delta Ray equipment, but I wanted to collect and provide some data that the community may use at their own risk.

I was also unable to acquire any current draw or prop testing information from Xtreme or the many dealers listed as carrying their product. However, the company graciously provided motors for testing, without any test requirements.

RCG friends graciously supplied Hobby Zone motors/propellers and the meters used in these tests. A selection of props,and 2mm prop savers were purchased for this test.


TESTING
A motor mount was made using a surplus CD-Rom drive half case (open on one side and end, plus just thick enough on other end to mount the motor). The case was drilled to accept the motor shaft and mounting screws. [See motor mount below]

The case was hung using wire over a postal scale with the motor facing down and the motor pulling down on the scale to register thrust.

Battery: Turnigy 2S 1500mAh 25C
ESC: HobbyWing 20A controller set for Lipo battery with brake off

Several passes were made with a Delta Ray motor and prop to ensure baseline measurements, including thrust, were consistent with previously published data for the Delta Ray brick.

Peak RPMs were measured immediately after the video so it is assumed they will be close to the sustained voltage level. The optical reader did not appear to read the ghost blade correctly due to its transparency.

Push-on prop drilled out for use with prop saver on Pro 180 motor test.
Last edited by GottaZoom; Dec 07, 2015 at 11:48 PM.
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Dec 07, 2015, 07:43 PM
Up! Up! And Away!
GottaZoom's Avatar
Thread OP
PRELIMINARY RESULTS

Hobby Zone 180 motor (splined, CCW) with Hobby Zone 4.75x3 (push-on) prop

Video - Peak 10.5A, 83W, 162g - Sustained 9A, 70W, 150g / RPMs - 13,770


Pro 180 motor (CW w/ 2mm prop saver) with Hobby Zone 4.75x3 prop

Video - Peak 15.3A, 117W, 226g - Sustained 13A, 100W, 170g / RPMs - 14,970

Notes: prop hub drilled out


Pro 180 motor (CW w/ 2mm prop saver) with Diatone 5x3 prop

Video - Peak 12.9A, 102W, 236g - Sustained 12A, 95W, 215g / RPMs - error

Notes: used Gemfan prop insert


Pro 180 motor (CW w/ 2mm prop saver) with Gemfan 5x3x3 prop

Video - Peak 14.2A, 112W, 247g - Sustained 12A, 95W, 215g / RPMs - 15,780


Pro 180 motor (CW w/ 2mm prop saver) with Gemfan 6x3x prop

Video - Peak 15.5A, 118W, 276g - Sustained 13.2A, 100W, 250g / RPMs - 13,500

Notes: O-ring did not hold, used zip ties.


Pro 180 motor (CW w/ 2mm prop saver) with APC 6x4 prop

Video - Peak 16.9A, 126W, 210g - Sustained (test suspended)

Notes: O-ring did not hold, used zip ties which held but ties were not installed correctly around shaft->out of balance. APC insert not flush with prop base.
Last edited by GottaZoom; Dec 08, 2015 at 03:00 PM.
Dec 08, 2015, 09:10 AM
Up! Up! And Away!
GottaZoom's Avatar
Thread OP
Reserved
Dec 08, 2015, 10:38 AM
Registered User
ddruck's Avatar
I am doing a lot of motor testing, one thing I would suggest to replace your mount or cut the face , where your motor is mounted, down a lot, the props are very close to the plate and it's area is very large area compare to the prop area giving you pretty large resistance, interference and inaccurate data, in some cases largely inaccurate.

Dan
Dec 08, 2015, 11:50 AM
Up! Up! And Away!
GottaZoom's Avatar
Thread OP
Thanks for your suggestion. I considered drilling the face on either side of the motor but decided to skip that after getting my initial readings during test fitting. The draw and thrust data for the baseline matches data for the motor mounted on-plane (previously published by another tester). This met my goal for ballpark comparative info on draw and thrust to help narrow down my component selection.

And, I learned some things:

- If I was going to do this a lot I'd buy a thrust stand to mount the prop in open air.

- I would look for a constant voltage power supply of sufficient capacity to eliminate/minimize sagging.

- A higher C (lower IR) battery may benefit the Pro180 motor.

- Mid-range throttle and thrust/draw comparisons are generally more important to me than peak thrust.

For the RPM data I don't always get very consistent readings for the same prop. The type, amount and direction of light seems to affect the reading and I am getting the best readings by using a light on one side of the prop and the sensor on the other.

I hope to re-test after the motors are mounted on a fuselage.
Dec 08, 2015, 07:57 PM
Registered User
ddruck's Avatar
You can see some of my testing here, and my setup.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=121510

I am of course testing completely different scenario, in my case, where batteries and max power is important to get F5J, 1500g to 2500g, gliders to 200m in 30 sec.
Been testing couple of years with improving equipment. Learned a few things, optical tachometers are ok , but something like Eagle tree e logger makes life so much easier and you get graph over time.
Thrust measurements are not particularly useful even though many people think they are. Real flight tests do not support thrust test variations, many lower thrust tested combos produce better real life results than higher thrust combos. There are too many influences that cannot be tested, like in air prop performance, air prop loading and efficiency, airplane weight, speed and drag ..... all effecting the actual performance.
On the other hand, testing is great fun, gives a basic ballpark and some useful comparisons if backed up by real life flight testing. Puts you a bit ahead of your competition if you choose to go that way.
Have fun ! Happy testing!
Dec 08, 2015, 08:30 PM
Up! Up! And Away!
GottaZoom's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddruck
... something like Eagle tree e logger makes life so much easier and you get graph over time.
That's some nice gear!
Jan 26, 2016, 01:24 PM
Registered User
GZ... I realize this thread is more than a month old but...

I want to upgrade to Pro 180 motors. I don't think I'll miss SAFE nor the three flight modes. I do want decent stabilization though.

Q1: Will the Pro 180 motors safely run with 3S batteries?

Q2: What cheap (but good) stabilized Rx and ESCs would you recommend (3S preferred)... for use with Taranis or Spektrum Tx? BTW, I have a couple of OrangeRx stabilized Rx just sitting arround.
Jan 26, 2016, 02:22 PM
Up! Up! And Away!
GottaZoom's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by ignernt_dweeb
... Q1: Will the Pro 180 motors safely run with 3S batteries?

Q2: What cheap (but good) stabilized Rx and ESCs would you recommend (3S preferred)... for use with Taranis or Spektrum Tx? BTW, I have a couple of OrangeRx stabilized Rx just sitting arround.
A1 - I don't know as I chickened out on testing it for 3S, at least until I get to try flying it on 2S.

Perhaps there is a limit under which it will work and I still hope to test 3S out but that won't be until later this year, at the earliest. My mechanic flying buddy has WAY better insights into such things and he suggested it could be a quick fail. I still want to know, but that is the main reason I've held up on testing 3S so far.

A2 - If you don't want panic or self-leveling or roll limits then I'd say go ahead and try the Orange you already have - I assume it is somewhat similar to the Lemon that gets good praise - I think there may even be firmware hacking available for the Orange that could offer other features. I've given away a couple Orange v2 inline stabilizers that go behind the RX and suspect even something like those would work to help with taming wind.

With adjustable stabilizers is you have to fly and test the gain settings to see what you like. If there is a thread for your model there might be somebody with experience to give you starting values. Or you might just set them all at 50% and start from there. Turn them down if you get any oscillation and up if you want/need more affect on each specific axis.

With differential thrust in a programmable TX I don't think you'd have yaw stabilization because you'd have no servos controlled by the Orange. But you could add a servo and rudder with a regular RX having a channel input if you want it.

As for brushed ESCs, the only 2 I remember looking at from memory are the Turnigy from Hobby King and the HobbyWing I sourced from Banggood for about $8. Same flying bud had some throttle calibration problems he never sorted out with the Turnigys (possibly because he was using PPM converters of the DR brick), but they sure look very similar. The 20As are lighter (and probably smaller) than the 30As so good ventilation is more important. If the 30s don't fit the nacelles you'd mount them in the fuselage.

IIRC, both ESCs are 3S capable, but I don't know what other brushed motor you would use if a Pro180 burns up and you need to replace it. I guess you'd go back to 2S, or go brushless (with different ESCs and motors).
Jan 26, 2016, 03:45 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaZoom
A1 - I don't know as I chickened out on testing it for 3S, at least until I get to try flying it on 2S.

Perhaps there is a limit under which it will work and I still hope to test 3S out but that won't be until later this year, at the earliest. My mechanic flying buddy has WAY better insights into such things and he suggested it could be a quick fail. I still want to know, but that is the main reason I've held up on testing 3S so far.

A2 - If you don't want panic or self-leveling or roll limits then I'd say go ahead and try the Orange you already have - I assume it is somewhat similar to the Lemon that gets good praise - I think there may even be firmware hacking available for the Orange that could offer other features. I've given away a couple Orange v2 inline stabilizers that go behind the RX and suspect even something like those would work to help with taming wind.

With adjustable stabilizers is you have to fly and test the gain settings to see what you like. If there is a thread for your model there might be somebody with experience to give you starting values. Or you might just set them all at 50% and start from there. Turn them down if you get any oscillation and up if you want/need more affect on each specific axis.

With differential thrust in a programmable TX I don't think you'd have yaw stabilization because you'd have no servos controlled by the Orange. But you could add a servo and rudder with a regular RX having a channel input if you want it.

As for brushed ESCs, the only 2 I remember looking at from memory are the Turnigy from Hobby King and the HobbyWing I sourced from Banggood for about $8. Same flying bud had some throttle calibration problems he never sorted out with the Turnigys (possibly because he was using PPM converters of the DR brick), but they sure look very similar. The 20As are lighter (and probably smaller) than the 30As so good ventilation is more important. If the 30s don't fit the nacelles you'd mount them in the fuselage.

IIRC, both ESCs are 3S capable, but I don't know what other brushed motor you would use if a Pro180 burns up and you need to replace it. I guess you'd go back to 2S, or go brushless (with different ESCs and motors).
I was thinking the Orange Rx could be set up to deal with differential thrust (rudder) stabilization... ??
Jan 26, 2016, 04:38 PM
Up! Up! And Away!
GottaZoom's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by ignernt_dweeb
I was thinking the Orange Rx could be set up to deal with differential thrust (rudder) stabilization... ??
It will know correction is needed but likely only send the data to just a single servo connected to the stab's rudder channel (4) output. That doesn't give stab feedback into the TX for it to use with mixes and motor channels.

It would only work if the Orange could feed rudder stabilization correction back to the correct channel(s) inside the RX AND if the RX knows how to vary which multiple channels. But that is probably more complicated than the Orange can be programmed. That's what a flight controller does beyond what a regular gyro does.

Same issue as with other posts today on the DR thread. Add a rudder and a servo connected to the RX?
Last edited by GottaZoom; Jan 26, 2016 at 05:46 PM.
Jan 26, 2016, 05:38 PM
Registered User
awe... crap...
Jan 26, 2016, 05:41 PM
Up! Up! And Away!
GottaZoom's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by ignernt_dweeb
awe... crap...
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=6195


Quick Reply
Message:
Thread Tools