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Mar 26, 2019, 08:58 PM
Flying Models Plans
That looks like a good day for a double reef! Perhaps even with the mizzen furled and a smaller headsail. Despite it all though, she's still standing taller than that racing rig to port.

Nicely done.
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Mar 26, 2019, 09:48 PM
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Janusz Jawien's Avatar
Need some advice.
I am in the last stage of this project trying to figure out the sails. I am not at all experienced in sailboatboat dynamics and I am not sure what penalty I will get for my fantazies. I decided for set of two gaffs and looking at Zbig's picture on post 1399 I tried to copy his main gaff that is pretty large in the size (I am not sure if the measures on this pictures are correct). How the boat with so much bigger main gaff will handle the air?
What are the oryginal measures for the main gaff should be?

Any advice will be appreciated !
Mar 26, 2019, 10:35 PM
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Zbip57's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janusz Jawien
What are the original measures for the main gaff should be?
Gary's original Irene had a triangular Bermuda-rigged mainsail and gaff foresail, but in his plans he included an optional sail layout with both foresail and mainsail being gaff-rigged. The sheet is titled, "Schooner Irene Gaff Plan.pdf". It features a longer bowsprit and larger jib sail, and masts raked further rearward. The dimensions of the three sails are indicated on that sheet.

Did you get that sheet with your copy of the plans?
Mar 27, 2019, 01:15 AM
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Janusz Jawien's Avatar
My bad, sorry... I did not print this page..now I see it...doh...
Thank you, Zbip !
Mar 27, 2019, 02:41 AM
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robcrusoe's Avatar
Yes Bill, she did it with real style. I'm sure she would handle a couple more knots, but unlikely to go any faster.

As for tacking, Chris, never a real issue but in these conditions you don't try to point as high and fall off a bit slowly before commencing the tack I can say for sure she was more at one with the conditions than any of the modern plastics. They had their moments, she just had one big one. These are big hearted craft

As for reefing, well, maybe in a stronger blow. Trouble is, you just don't want to bring her in when she's romping along.

Maybe the video I took from ashore will illustrate what I'm saying and perhaps raise more comments.

RC Schooner Tessa 2 on a high (2 min 5 sec)


Here's a clip of the Govt weather observations for the period.
Mar 27, 2019, 09:31 AM
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Janusz Jawien's Avatar
Very capable design ! The boat with a BIG HEART !
Congrads to camera man, well done and informative video !
Mar 27, 2019, 11:29 AM
Flying Models Plans
I certainly understand not wanting to come back in to put in a reef, and fortunately, the risks aren't as severe for us as it is with the big boys.

My father beat into me that "it is always easier to take a reef out than put one in" and only once did I forget that advice. It seemed calm enough in the lee of the island, but got pretty hairy once we cleared the headland. I should have retreated a few hundred yards and reset, but stuck it out for a most unpleasant hour or so.

Another time while iceboating I got rather concerned at how easily we were flying our windward runner, so retreated to shore and swapped out the main for a much smaller storm sail. We didn't have any way of accurately measuring speed at the time, but my brother-in-law and I both felt that with both runners on the ice we were going much faster than before as there was a lot less skidding going on. While that may not have been the case, suffice it to say that well into the 50-60 mph range we were still going plenty fast for a lot of fun, and were more able to enjoy the ride without worrying about capsizing an antique craft.

Thayer
Mar 27, 2019, 06:27 PM
Seagoon
Great video robcrusoe, she handled the wind well, about the way I thought it should. In a couple of shots it looks like she’s trying to put her nose in but never did. I wonder if the story would be different with a bowsprit moving the jib further forward.
Mar 29, 2019, 04:02 PM
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robcrusoe's Avatar

Bowsprit


Moving the jib forward along a bowsprit was done originally but it made fitting the forestay too difficult on the cut of the jibsail. This was replaced for that reason and the fact that this sprit managed to spear a DF95 between jib and mast, resulting in a strained relationship with the 95 owner (water off my back, really, the can see me coming)) but a 30 minute wait for the ensnared boats to drift ashore. So that stempost (aft version is the sternpost) was installed to enable the forestay to keep well clear of the leach of the jibsail. Don't be fooled by the seemingly adequate gap in the photo, its when the sail is fully in that mattered. I would prefer to have kept the sprit but my sailing mates were understandably a bit edgey about having a 20lb virtual lance wending it's unstoppable way amid their lightweight, thin hulled plastics.

It did look good, though, don't you think? I could make a taller foremast, I guess.
Mar 29, 2019, 04:06 PM
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Zbip57's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robcrusoe
I'm sure she would handle a couple more knots...
... I can say for sure she was more at one with the conditions than any of the modern plastics.
Nice video! It's great to see these ships being put through their paces.

It is a remarkably strong and stable design. In a strong blow like this I've never seen them heel over any further than that, unlike the lighter plastic boats that'll get knocked flat. The Irene design tends to go over only so far then spills enough wind from her sails that the heavy keel bulb holds her from going any further. If it looks like there's any danger of her going further, you can always spool out the sheets to dump more wind from the sails.
Mar 29, 2019, 04:37 PM
Mad on modding
robcrusoe's Avatar
You are right on the money about that, Zip.
But in regards to going further, well, it doesn't.
This can entirely attributed to Gary's expertise as a proficient designer of optimum performance.
I noticed that when a really strong gust hit, the sails kind of shivered a bit for a moment, then she just maintained the same heel angle. the other noticeable aspect during that heavy going is that she reaches a seemingly maximum speed and cannot go any faster. What she doesn't do that most plastics will, is pitch pole, that is, dig the bow right under resulting in a dramatic downwards lurch off course and loss of velocity. That this version has the prow above the water normally, has a lot to do with it, but even an Irene will only look like it is going to, but doesn't.
Mar 29, 2019, 04:51 PM
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robcrusoe's Avatar

General question, the difference between a ship and a boat?


In respect to full sized vessels, that is.
Mar 29, 2019, 05:06 PM
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Zbip57's Avatar
I'm ready for the first test launch to try out my new sail layout! But I still need to wait for the ice to melt off the lake. It seems like this winter is never going to end, sigh.

I've had to re-think and revise my original plans several times over. Ultimately, I've been forced to admit defeat at any hope of being able to tack the topsails. It's just not going to work.

I have the winch servo installed, and all the sheets figured out. In theory it should all work. The final step would only have been to drill the required extra holes through the deck for the sheet tubes. But I bailed out before committing to that.

To tack the topsails from one side to the other, the foot of each topsail at minimum needs to be lifted up and over the peak halyard of the gaffs and pulled tight down the opposite side. The fore topsail needs a little extra as it needs to be passed up over the stay joining the tips of the two masts. This would probably work fine with light-weight silk sails, but it doesn't work at all with my heavy cotton sails and their hand-stitched hems. They snag and catch on the lines as they're being pulled over the top. I'm worried the strong winch servo will tear the rigging apart.

I tried various solutions. Maybe the same Bic pens I've been slicing up to make jib hanks would make nice rollers? I ran the peak halyards through the tube barrels of the Bic pens. thereby providing a smoother surface for the topsails to slide over the halyards. That was an improvement, but still didn't work. First off, the white tubes are butt ugly. But they didn't work because the tack line pulling down on the foot of the topsail tended to ride off the end of the tube, then jam up and snag against the pulley block through which the peak halyard runs.

Okay, so forget about trying to tack the topsails. Just leave them fixed in place.

But the fore topsail is still a problem because it needs to swing across past the stay joining the mastheads. The gaff normaily swings across under that stay, but it can't do that with a topsail attached.

It offends the purist in me, but I simply deleted that stay. There is still a stay joining the tips of the topmasts and that seems to be plenty strong enough all on its own, with no other cross-stays required.

So that's where I'm at. I have one winch pulling the two flying jibs and the foot of the fisherman's staysail from one side to other when tacking. But I've given up trying to pull the foot of each topsail up and over when tacking, or dipping the peak of the fisherman's staysail down and under the masthead stay. Simply delete that triatic stay, and leave those sails fixed as-is.

Phew, that's a whole lot easier!
Mar 29, 2019, 05:07 PM
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Zbip57's Avatar
After stitching hems and stringing rigging lines, these are the sail dimensions I ended up with.

At this point I was still planning on being able to tack the topsails, and that limited the amount of overlap possible due to how much winch travel was available. They could have been made larger, now that I'm just going to leave them fixed. But I'm tired of sewing sails and just want to try this out as it is now.

Waiting for the ice to melt...
Mar 30, 2019, 03:44 PM
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Zbip57's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zbip57
Waiting for the ice to melt...
Nuts.

It snowed again today. It's still winter here.

I could cry.


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