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Mar 14, 2019, 06:38 PM
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When all else fails, move the 'ON/OFF' switch to the 'ON' position.
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Mar 14, 2019, 07:32 PM
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Zbip57's Avatar
Originally Posted by Terry Smith
When all else fails, move the 'ON/OFF' switch to the 'ON' position.
That's always a good idea. It's especially important to remember that one before pushing the boat out into the lake!
Mar 15, 2019, 12:03 AM
Registered User
Done that!

An A Class with nicely balanced rig/sails. Sailed itself in a dead straight line to the furthest point of the pond.
Mar 15, 2019, 12:56 AM
Registered User
Awesome video and restoration of Herreshoff - NY40 Marilee ...

Especially liked ...
The ingenious thought process of the restoration ... and to spare no expense ... for the ability to have BOTH a Gaff rig as well as Marconi rig option.

Truly awesome and wonderful craftsmanship.

Thank you for finding and posting this video link ... worth watch more than once.
Mar 15, 2019, 02:51 AM
Mad on modding
robcrusoe's Avatar

Shocking things about batteries, etc.

Originally Posted by Zbip57
That's always a good idea. It's especially important to remember that one before pushing the boat out into the lake! [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Mal/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]


While I'm sure this is not a new idea but I make a point of always testing the rudder as I prepare to lower the boat into the water, not on the stand, but at the last moment (or point of much delayed return. It's better to do it before it is on the water as it easy to get single-minded , to "SAIL"[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Mal/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.gif[/IMG]., or as Zip has said, check the switch. But checking the switch is not 100% effective in preventing uncontrolled sailing. The switch is only mechanical, and therefore just an indicator, not a test.

But why the rudder, why not the winch?
Well, the better idea is to test both, but should the boat only have one control working (and testing either or both declares the power IS on, so that covers that), a boat with winch control and no rudder is going to go the way of sheer chance, giving how the sails are set and how the breeze is behaving. Odds are it will be either disastrous, or a long time before you get it back from wherever it wandered to. But if the rudder is working and winch not, regardless of how the sails are set, or the breeze is, it will be fairly easy, albeit a slow process, to guide the boat ashore, hopefully nearby.

All my boats have a 5v LED set in view above deck. These are very small these days, AND, very bright (using a tiny amount of battery capacity). Noticing that it is NOT illuminated as the boat moves off in obedience to the breeze is a bit of a shock, it tells you both the rudder AND the winch are not powered. so all of the above advice is irrelevant, and you do have a problem.
The humble LED (it has a small resistor in line, to a spare slot in the RX) serves another important service. If it is still on while onshore, or when loading up the car, or even unloading the car, and so reminding you that it is still powered up, the odds are you would flatten the battery, unless you open the boat up straight way, and leave outdoors to clear moisture from within, as you should always do.
But is a flat battery anything more than recharging job? That depends on the chemistry of the rechargeable battery (if using 1.5v alkalines, you just waste money). If using LiPo of LiFe lithium type batteries a total discharge will usually either reduce the capacity of the battery, or just stuff it up completely (if it doesnít burn your house down).
If you are using NiMh 1.2v batteries you might well get away with it, but not always. Over time the capacity will also be diminished from low\zero voltage conditions. Using a simple voltage meter on any battery will only tell you what that level is now, with no load on it. You can use a meter that places a load on the battery for a second or two but for these sort of boats, and the manner if which we sail them, not really necessary.

While on this subject ( I only know a lot about it because I have done the wrong thing enough times, in the past, to now know better) the boat itself can warn you of an impending low voltage drop out. Because of the extent of work each servo does, and the relative loads upon each, the winch will appear to get sluggish (as Zip reports) first, with enough time to lay off using it and use just the rudder, sparingly, to get your ailing boat ashore.

All this is just my own 2 volts worth on such things.
Mar 15, 2019, 11:43 PM
Modeler/ Historian
Stephen Vick's Avatar
Indeed, given time in the hobby we’ve all made the same mistakes. Today’s systems are far more robust and forgiving , however, some mistakes will forever happen.
Mar 16, 2019, 03:14 AM
Registered User

Sheet horses

Hi folks,
I am wondering how best to attach the sheet horses to Irene's deck. I like the idea of sailing without sail control. Do I need posts as with Emma or can I maybe bend the rod on both ends and epoxy into a drilled hole?
I am making steady progress on my 80% Irene. The hull and deck are almost finished, working on sail control mounts and shaping the spars. I will also start sewing the sails (2 gaffs) soon.
The lake here is thawing and there is now enough open water close to shore. Maybe I will take my Emma out for a spin.
Good health to all,
Answer to slo.ca6: I was interested when I read or heard Gary's statement that his boats also sail well without sail control. So I would like to add the sheet horses, but how? From the drawings it is not clear.
Last edited by irandar; Mar 16, 2019 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Explanation
Mar 16, 2019, 10:17 AM
Registered User
irandar (aka Irving)

Hope others will respond and comment to your post above with expanded details and suggested comments.

But ... maybe in meantime you can edit / add to your forum post above ... to explain why ... “I like the idea of sailing without sail control ??”

NOTE: you can use the “Edit” button located in the bottom of your text area where you created your original msg.

UPDATE: Ah - Irving ... I see know where your question is coming from ... actually - I was not aware that Gary made that comment about sailing WITHOUT sail control ... that said ... it would seem that whatever main and jib sheet line anchor method you chose will work ... and should allow for adjustment of the sail rigging sheet lines (ie to allow setting sails close hauled to hull Ctr line ... or let out .. or in between)

Would be best if Gary answered and to get his comments ... FYI - you can always send Gary a PM-Private Msg using the button next to Gary’s forum ID ... Gary usually responds and always willing to help others ... Gary (or his son Spike) might actually see this forum post and reply to the forum directly
Last edited by slo.ca6; Mar 16, 2019 at 12:13 PM.
Mar 16, 2019, 12:30 PM
sailtails - YouTube
Gary Webb's Avatar

Many Jibs / Sheet Horses / Runaways

Hi Gang,
Cheers to the fearless Zbip and his "Many Jibs" project! I am cheering for this one, it will be a grand sight to see!

Irandar - Sheet Horses on the original Irene were made of Brass.
Flanges were soldered onto 1/8" round and the Horses (Travelers) were then held to the deck with screws. I used some #2 hex head brass machine screws which I happened to have. The mainsheet Horse was set upon wooden blocks to provide clearance at the Bumkin, the Fore and Jib Horses sit right on deck. See fotos.

Storytime - Not too long ago, I hurriedly launched "Emma" without turning on her battery power. She gathered way, straight and steady, going away ---
Spike was sailing our schooner "Tramp" nearby and managed to intercept "Emma". "Tramp" gently nudged "Emma" around onto the other tack and she sailed herself right back to me!

Cheers, Gary
Mar 16, 2019, 01:08 PM
sailtails - YouTube
Gary Webb's Avatar

Sailing Without Sail Control ???

Indeed, I have remarked about this in the past. Here's a recap.

The original "Irene" was built with a scale (sort of) interior for it was intended that she serve as a movie prop. This of course meant there was no room for a winch system, so I simply sailed her without sail control.
Expecting her maneuvers to be somewhat limited, I found, to my delight, that she was able to get around quite well. I did have to learn to adjust the sheets "about right". That is, hauled in, but not too close in. This way, she could broad reach to beat the band, make her way to weather well enough, and of course go downwind.
Obviously the windward and downwind performance could probably be better with sail control, but it was surprising how well she did go.

Often, when sailing amongst other boats, her "handicap" was not at all evident!

A beginner might benefit from fixed sheets because He (or She) could first concentrate on learning to steer relative to the wind, and learn later to trim the sails.
All that said, it surely is fun to sail with sail control. Probably because it allows the Skipper a responsibility of great importance.

Cheers, Gary
Last edited by Gary Webb; Mar 16, 2019 at 01:27 PM. Reason: Added info
Mar 16, 2019, 01:28 PM
Registered User
You are AWESOME Gary ...
Glad you responded and gave GREAT ADVICE as usual
Mar 16, 2019, 04:43 PM
sailtails - YouTube
Gary Webb's Avatar

Sheet Horses (more)

[QUOTE=irandar;41410993]Hi folks,
I am wondering how best to attach the sheet horses to Irene's deck. I like the idea of sailing without sail control. Do I need posts as with Emma or can I maybe bend the rod on both ends and epoxy into a drilled hole?

Oops, in my previous response about Sheet Horses I failed to actually answer Irandar's query.
The answer is Yes, I reckon you can simply bend the rod and glue it into holes in the deck. I would add though that it would be a good idea to glue some wooden backing blocks (1/4" thick) to the underside of the deck at those spots. If the drilled hole fits reasonably well, CA will hold the rod in place.

And Thanks slo.ca6 for your comment

Cheers to All, Gary
Mar 16, 2019, 06:04 PM
Registered User
Zbip57's Avatar
Originally Posted by Gary Webb
Cheers to the fearless Zbip and his "Many Jibs" project! I am cheering for this one, it will be a grand sight to see!
Thanks, Gary.

I was really bummed there for a while, thinking maybe this just wasn't worth the effort since it wasn't working. But after figuring out where I'd gone wrong, I'm confident I'm on the right track now. Making progress once more.

Here's a photo showing the relative size of one of the scaled down flying jibs, compared to the first attempt which was too large. Next step will be running new jib sheets (yet again). Measure fifteen times, cut once...
Mar 16, 2019, 11:50 PM

Hello, and Help.

Hello, to everyone. I have been reading your posts and following your builds for a while now, and have found many ideas and answers, my thanks to all. I have been working on my own Irene since the beginning of December. Itís the first time Iíve built a boat and although Iíve had a few ďI canít believe you did that you idiotĒ moments, it is coming together.
My question this evening is about bringing lines through the deck, how far should the brass tubes extend above and below the deck? Should both ends be flaired? And whatís the best method to do it?
Once I have that sorted, l think Iím ready to glue on the deck.
I will look forward to your answers.
Thanks, Chris.
Mar 17, 2019, 10:34 AM
Registered User
Zbip57's Avatar
Originally Posted by Chris Blight
How far should the brass tubes extend above and below the deck? Should both ends be flared? And whatís the best method to do it?
When sailing in strong winds it is possible for the Irene to heel over far enough to dip the gunwale railing under water. That water will all drain out through the scuppers as the boat rights itself. But you can have water washing back and forth across the deck to the other side as the boat heels the other way after tacking. Or you can also have water just splashing up over the bow and washing down the deck.

See video:

Sailing Kamanik on Lake Ontario, Day-2 (1 min 45 sec)

Clearly you don't want any holes through the deck flush at deck level for the water to find a way to get through. On mine, the brass tubes stand about an inch tall. That's plenty tall enough. I've never seen more than a couple of teaspoons worth of water in the bilge, nothing to worry about.

I used brake lines and a brake line flaring tool for the tubes, flaring both ends. However, when both ends are flared you need to make the hole through the deck slightly bigger than the nominal diameter of the tubing, since the flared end is now bigger. And that makes for a sloppy fit through the deck. To fix that, I flared one end first, then glued the tube through a snug fit hole in a small square block of wood, then flared the other end. Passing the flared tube through the larger hole in the deck isn't a problem then, because the square block glued to the deck covers and seals the hole, as well as providing support to the tube.

A raised block around the mast serves a similar purpose. See photo.

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