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Oct 13, 2018, 09:03 AM
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Zbip57's Avatar
That is truly gorgeous.

Can you share details of how will you control the double jib sails?
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Oct 13, 2018, 09:27 AM
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Thread OP

Beautiful Schooner😁


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy_From_NZ
Hi All

here are some photos of " Ketty Jay".
What a nice name, would you tell us about it? I can't wait to see her sailing!
I wish I'd simply drawn seam lines on my sailcloth before cutting it.
Thanks!
P
Oct 14, 2018, 04:10 AM
Registered User

Top sails for schooner


Hi Gary,
Having just finished sloop emma I am now tidying up Schooner Lorraine and was thinking about top sails. In Emma the topsail extends 10" above the mast top. Would that do for the schooner or is it too much? I realise I would need to let out more jib. The schooner sails well even in light winds but I have to be making something. Addicted to building...... Very impressed with many of the boats and the attention to detail which i often neglect,
regards
Bob
Oct 14, 2018, 01:28 PM
sailtails - YouTube
Gary Webb's Avatar

Top Sails for gaff rigged schooner


Quote:
Originally Posted by ourbluehorizon
Hi Gary,
Having just finished sloop emma I am now tidying up Schooner Lorraine and was thinking about top sails. In Emma the topsail extends 10" above the mast top. Would that do for the schooner or is it too much? I realise I would need to let out more jib. The schooner sails well even in light winds but I have to be making something. Addicted to building...... Very impressed with many of the boats and the attention to detail which i often neglect,
regards
Bob
Hi Bob,
Sure sounds like you’re having fun! About all I can do is try to help feed your addiction.
I made up Top Sails for my gaff schooner, tried to keep it simple, and easy to set up or remove without disturbing the basic rig.
Here are pictures of my “Tramp", and I’ll give one dimension - The Top Mast extends 17” (43cm) above the top of the Main Mast.
Probably best for you to check my photos, and derive the other measurements from your own boat’s rig.
The MAIN TOP SAIL’s lower edge overlaps the lower end of the gaff (like I see on full size boats). The lowest corner of this sail is held by a line which goes to a cleat on the side of the main boom, a bit aft of the gooseneck. I used a piece of light leather (from an old billfold) to stiffen the area where the topsail jogs around the top of the main mast.
The TOP MAST STAYSAIL is cut to clear the stay between the masts, and has a sheet fixed to the topmast with enough slack to let the sail have a shape when filled with wind. This sail also is a replica of full size boats.
SAILING with the Top Sails - Expect a bit more performance (especially in light airs) and a bit of weather helm which is barely noticeable in light airs, tolerable in moderate breezes, and maybe undesirable in strong winds when it would be good seamanship to sail without Top Sails.
This project won’t last very long in the work shop, but at least it’s fun to play with at the pond!
We will all be standing by for a report from “Lorraine”
Cheers, Gary
Oct 14, 2018, 02:39 PM
Registered User

Schooner Lorraine topsails


Thanks Gary.
Still got plenty of browater material. Will start cutting and sewing tomorrow. Weather is very changeable over here so may be awhile before I try top sails out or I could put lights on .
Thanks again for prompt reply.
regards
Bob
Oct 15, 2018, 11:17 PM
Recent Convert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zbip57
That is truly gorgeous.

Can you share details of how will you control the double jib sails?
Hi Zbip

thanks for that.
for the Flying jib i added a second winch of a third channel on my radio, The transmitter i have ( Futaba TK6) has a dial on the front which i am using to control this. The winch runs a loop of line from the foredeck down the side of the boat to the stern and back forward along the other side, to this loop are two Sheets ( one either side) which go to the clew of the Flying jib. Hopefully that makes sense, here are some photos. The boats currently dismasted while i sort out the internal mechanics but ill post some more photos once she is reassembled .

the other jib will be run same as the prototype with a shorter boom attached at the base of the inner forestay, The flying jib is a bit of a trial and i hope it works but if it doesn't then I'll go back to the original design .

The Name "Ketty Jay " is from a series of books By Chris Wooding called the tails of the Ketty Jay, its a Steampunk Airship Skippered by a renegade Pirate, we both enjoy his books so rather than name it after her my partner suggested this.

Cheers

Shaggy
Oct 16, 2018, 08:59 AM
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Zbip57's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy_From_NZ
for the Flying jib i added a second winch of a third channel on my radio, The transmitter i have ( Futaba TK6) has a dial
Ah, clever. And very tidy. Can't wait to see the result. It'll be beautiful!

I really wanted to have a flying jib on mine as well, but couldn't figure out how to rig something like that.

I eventually came to the same conclusion, that it would require a separate winch all of its own. But my cheap six-channel transmitter, although it has all sorts of extra switches, does not have an extra dial. The second winch could have been rigged to one of the switches, just pulling the flying jib tight either to port or starboard, but I really would prefer a proportionally adjustable dial like on yours.

As it is, I'm only using two channels now, the throttle stick to adjust sail trim, and the rudder channel. I would need to convert the spring-centred elevator channel on my transmitter to behave like a second throttle stick to stay put and hold any selected position. But I didn't want to bugger up the transmitter trying to figure out how to modify that.

Hmmm, maybe that could be this winter's project...
Oct 16, 2018, 09:35 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zbip57
my cheap six-channel transmitter, although it has all sorts of extra switches, does not have an extra dial.
Hmmm, maybe that could be this winter's project...
If you have mixing you could slave the jib winch winch to the master main winch, adjust each, and control both from the throttle stick.
Oct 16, 2018, 10:33 AM
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Zbip57's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by g'n's
If you have mixing you could slave the jib winch winch to the master main winch, adjust each, and control both from the throttle stick.
Actually, no.

The main winch serves only to wind all the sheets in tight or let them out loose. It makes no difference to the winch whether the boat is on a starboard tack or port tack.

You could use the same simple mechanism if both the twinned jibs had individual short booms, which don't overlap. Then you only need to let the sheets out loose or wind them in tight, regardless of starboard or port tack. No problem.

But, it's not nearly as simple with a flying jib that overlaps the staysail without a boom. That needs to be pulled back down one side or the other of the boat, and it needs to be dragged forward across and over the staysail to be trimmed tight or loose down the opposite side of the boat whenever changing tack from one side to the other.

In effect, the flying jib is twice as complicated as all the other sails, as the sails with booms will swing from one side to the other all by themselves only needing to be trimmed out loose or in tight regardless of which tack you're on. An overlapping flying jib also needs to be capable of trimming out loose or in tight, plus needs the capability of being drawn forward from one side of the boat across to the other when changing tack.
Oct 16, 2018, 11:47 PM
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Gary Webb's Avatar

Jibs


Thank you Zbip57 for that very clear explanation of the overlapping Jib function. Though I opted for simplicity in the Irene design, I understand the desire for another head sail. Not only might it look great, but I've heard it said that an overlapping sail can be a real performance booster. On top of that, it will keep the Skipper on his toes! My Hat's off to those who choose to do a proper job of it!
Cheers, Gary
Oct 16, 2018, 11:49 PM
sailtails - YouTube
Gary Webb's Avatar

Overlapping Jibs


Thank you Zbip57 for that very clear explanation of the overlapping Jib function. Though I opted for simplicity in the Irene design, I understand the desire for another head sail. Not only might it look great, but I've heard it said that an overlapping sail can be a real performance booster. On top of that, it will keep the Skipper busy! My Hat's off to those who choose to do a proper job of it!
Cheers, Gary

OOPS - somehow posted twice!
Last edited by Gary Webb; Oct 16, 2018 at 11:54 PM. Reason: boo - boo
Oct 17, 2018, 06:40 AM
Registered User

Building a stand for Emma


Hi folks,

I found a reasonable looking stand for Emma on the Internet and decided to build it. It took me a while to figure out the dimensions required for Emma. As seen in the photo the 4 legs are from 1.5x3 cm wood and are 80 cm long. The feet are cut at an angle to lie flat on the floor. The 4 dowel cross pieces are 1.5 cm diam. and 70 cm long. They are set into drilled holes 5 cm from the end of the legs and glued with hot glue. The distance from the floor to the drilled and bolted hinge is 40cm. The straps are made from acrylic canvas and are sized to allow 40 cm span. The loops are sewn with an awl sewer. If I had waited with glueing the dowels I could have made the loops on a sewing machine and slipped them on. The dimensions provide 7cm space from floor to keel. The stand sways a bit but seems to be strong enough to do the job.
Hope this might be helpful to someone.
Irving
Oct 17, 2018, 03:48 PM
Mad on modding
robcrusoe's Avatar
Looks good, Irving.

Good thing about an Emma, no stand will get blown over with her resting on it. I've tested mine in recent 28 knot gusts and the boat will just heel easily as the ballast bulb counters the wind force more than adequately.

Would be interesting also to see the internet link.
Oct 18, 2018, 10:59 AM
Registered User
The stand design I found at Tippecanoe. See it here.

http://www.tippecanoeboats.com/acces...37-accessories
Oct 18, 2018, 11:26 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by irandar
The stand design I found at Tippecanoe. See it here.

http://www.tippecanoeboats.com/acces...37-accessories
Gary's stand seems sturdier. The plywood panels add stiffness without extra weight.


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