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May 31, 2018, 01:24 AM
Mad on modding
robcrusoe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zbip57
Not a gaff (yet), but a gaffe. As in, I'm a goof.

And that's when I remembered the little pile of PVC rings which were supposed to go onto the masts BEFORE cementing the gooseneck pins in place.

I had to grind the gooseneck cotter pins off, and drill new holes, and drive half an hour each way to the closest shop that sells more of those stainless steel cotter pins. I'm such an idiot.
If you're a Goof, then I must join your clan.

I have done so many things wrong before I realised the truth, that I couldn't list them all.

I guess I must have had a brain surge back then, one of few, but I did understand that the stain etc had to be done first, the sewn on rings next and then the fittings.

But.. even so, what do you do if you need to remove the sails for some reason. If they are damaged or just going in the bin, fine, cut 'em off and sew the rings back onto the new sails in-situ. But what if you want to use the sails again, or as I'm prone to try, different materials and sizing but retaining the originals?
So all my mast fittings are the screw in/out type simple ring eyes (very small to tiny). Sure, not as cool as period styles but as my boats are usually first seen out on the water, anything that 10 feet /3 metres out or more, nobody will notice such things.. The gooseneck is glued in as it doesn't affect rigging sails. And yes, I have employed the heat the part to soften the epoxy once and it worked fine.

Thing is, though. If your sails are anything like Garys hand sewn ones, and they work, you'll probably never change them anyway.

The thing about reporting the errors and what you did to remedy it, is for every one who is thus spared the pain, the cost of the boo-boo diminishes with every one you helped.

Keep up the good work and the very interesting and informative reports.
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May 31, 2018, 05:29 AM
Recent Convert

New From The bottom of the world


Hi.
Having bought the plans from Gary a couple of months ago I have finally started, sort of, to build Irene, I have started by building the dingy as a simple test of my skills and am slowly amassing the bits and pieces to build the rest of the Boat. I felt that the full size boat was a bit to big to be easily usable where I live so I am Building it 3/4 size.

I'm also toying with the idea of chucking in another winch and putting two foresails as per the Sketch but undecided at the moment.

As you have probably guessed Im in New Zealand, Auckland to be exact, not sure if there are any other Irene Builders here.

Its been great looking through this thread and seeing all the fantastic builds out there. thanks all for your inspiration.



cheers
May 31, 2018, 04:57 PM
Registered User
Thread OP

Lovely Skiff


Gosh, Shaggy, looks like we'll be eager to see your Schooner!
I think you'll find Irene an easy and enjoyable build, as was my Deborah!
Best wishes!
Paul
May 31, 2018, 06:31 PM
Registered User
Zbip57's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robcrusoe
what do you do if you need to remove the sails for some reason. [...]
all my mast fittings are the screw in/out type simple ring eyes (very small to tiny). [...]
The gooseneck is glued in as it doesn't affect rigging sails. [...]
There is a lot of stuff attached at the tops of the gaff-rigged masts. But it would have made sense to use screw in/out ring eyes for the gooseneck mounts.

Gary's pelican hooks make it easy to dismount the masts. And the booms are easily unbolted from the gooseneck cotter pin mounts. Instead of permanently gluing in those cotter pins, if we used screw-in ring eyes then those could be unscrewed and the mast hoops would slide nicely off the bottom of the mast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robcrusoe
Thing is, though. If your sails are anything like Gary's hand sewn ones, and they work, you'll probably never change them anyway.
I'm banking on that!
May 31, 2018, 07:18 PM
Registered User
Zbip57's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy_From_NZ
I have started by building the dinghy as a simple test of my skills
The dinghy is beautiful! You're off to a great start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy_From_NZ
I'm also toying with the idea of chucking in another winch and putting two foresails as per the Sketch but undecided at the moment.
I puzzled over that option for a while and ultimately decided it would require a second winch. That's too complicated for me.

In my searches I stumbled on a solution using a single arm winch, rather than two drums. Can't remember where I found this.

The single arm winch in the first image works the boom sheets. In the red position sheets are pulled all the way in. At the yellow position the sheets are let out fully. In the green position sheets are again pulled all the way in.

The second image is a bit confusing, but it's brilliant.

The shorter arm, shown in red positioned to the left and green to the right, is the servo-driven arm functioning the same as described in the first image. Boom sheets pulled fully in at either the full-left or full-right position, but spooled fully out when in the straight forward position.

Then there are two separate longer arms, red for port-side jib sheet and green for starboard-side jib sheet. Those two arms are loosely pinned to pivot freely. The servo-driven arm has a pin at it's far end which pushes against the longer jib arms. As the servo-driven arm swings left of centre, it pushes against the red port-side arm and pulls in the port-side jib sheet. Or, as the servo-driven arm swings right of centre, it pushes against the green starboard-side arm and pulls in the starboard-side jib sheet.

That's pretty nifty, eh?

The length of sheet travel might be an issue though. Gary's simple drum-winch design for Irene provides a whole 18" of sheet travel. I don't think you'll get that much travel with this fancy arm winch system.
May 31, 2018, 08:49 PM
Registered User
Zbip57's Avatar
This was another big hurdle. How to make those darn angled 20 gaff forks? It'd be pretty simple if they were just flat. But getting that angle in there required some head-scratching.

I transferred the dimensions to a block of wood, side view and top view, then drilled big holes to get the curves I needed. Some careful cutting, first from this side, then that side,... It sure would be easier with a proper bandsaw.

Anyway, I ended up with some rough outlines. Then lots and lots of sanding required to smooth everything out. A bit of staining, epoxy, and varnishing. Not bad.

While shopping at Michaels the other day, looking for Cap'n Hax's silver bells, I took the time to browse up and down every aisle to see what other sort of goodies they had. And I found this leather strapping material. That'd be handy, I thought, to line the inside surface of the gaff forks to prevent them from chafing the varnish off the masts. But that meant I had to enlarge the width of the throat in the forks to accommodate the extra thickness of the leather. Hence much more head-scratching involved while laying out the dimensions before doing any cutting...

And I found some wooden beads at Michaels. Note to self: Be sure to insert gaff forks around mast, before securing those beads in place!

Making major progress now!
May 31, 2018, 08:54 PM
Registered User
Zbip57's Avatar
Here's how I rigged the bowsprit. I used a couple of wooden blocks on the bobstay, with the line running back to cleat on the samson post.

For transport the masts can be removed via Gary's handy pelican hooks releasing the shroud stays. The forestay is eye-looped (doubled and seized) at both ends, so it just lifts off from the top of the foremast and from the end of the bowsprit.

Release the bobstay line from the samson post cleat and the bowsprit is free to rotate up and over around its pinned end. That works.

I probably won't use that many jib hanks, but I figured I might as well slice up the entire Bic pen while I was at it. It's good to have spare parts on hand.

The next photo shows all the stuff attached to the top of the masts. It's really quite busy up there. Tied a bazillion little knots!

And a photo of the boat in its current condition. I haven't threaded the sheets through yet. It's beginning to look serious now. Next up, start sewing sails...
Jun 02, 2018, 04:29 AM
Recent Convert
Thanks for your encouragement Paul And Zbip.

That servo arm setup is messing with my brain trying to understand it. I might need to model it to understand, As you say though Zbip it probably wont have the throw for Irene so I'll probably go for the second winch servo option , I like the way that its done on the Robbe Valdiva Schooner.

unfortunately I'm away from my workshop for a month so it will be a while before more progress is done, in the meantime I'll keep myself inspired by watching the fantastic builds on this forum

cheers

Shaggy
Jun 02, 2018, 03:58 PM
Registered User

Epoxy putty


I'm currently at the point where I need to install the epoxy putty on the inside of the hull on the joints on the boat. I bought some PC Fix PC 7 two part putty from Home Depot and tested it out on a scrap piece. It is VERY thick and stringy and doesn't seem to spread good into the joints. Maybe I should try to find a better product for the job? What have you been using that is readily available? Has anyone tried using a heavy 6 oz fiberglass cloth 1 inch wide strip and epoxy resin ? That would make it water tight and add strength to the joint.
Jun 02, 2018, 04:30 PM
Registered User

Epoxy filler and epoxy sealer


One more question. I assume you apply the clear epoxy sealer after you apply the epoxy putty filler on all hull joints?
Jun 02, 2018, 07:40 PM
Registered User
Thread OP

Easy building


Hi stevensakro, I have found PC-7 has worked fine in my Deborah for a couple of seasons. I coated the plywood inside and out with Minwax Wood Hardener both before and after filling gappy joints with PC-7. I followed that with oil-based primer and paint . I'm satisfied enough to now build an Emma the same way. I had large gaps along the joints and it was great simply filling them with PC-7, no worries. Deborah has rough, crude joints inside but Emma's were smoothed with a gloved finger dipped in denatured alcohol.
Jun 02, 2018, 08:47 PM
Registered User
Thanks g'ns. I'll go with the PC-7.
Jun 03, 2018, 01:13 AM
Registered User

Epoxy filled with microballs or flocs to make putty


Hi folks,
I am completing Emma but have not done the Epoxy work yet. I think I will make a putty by filling Epoxy with micro-balls. I once made a real stitch and glue rowboat using epoxy filled with cotton flocs. You can adjust the thickness by varying the amount of filler. Has anyone tried this?
Regards, Irving
Jun 03, 2018, 02:05 PM
Registered User

Pc-7


Quote:
Originally Posted by g'n's
Hi stevensakro, I have found PC-7 has worked fine in my Deborah for a couple of seasons. I coated the plywood inside and out with Minwax Wood Hardener both before and after filling gappy joints with PC-7. I followed that with oil-based primer and paint . I'm satisfied enough to now build an Emma the same way. I had large gaps along the joints and it was great simply filling them with PC-7, no worries. Deborah has rough, crude joints inside but Emma's were smoothed with a gloved finger dipped in denatured alcohol.
Does the material in your jars of PC-7 Epoxy Filler seem very thick and stringy to you? It is almost like window glazing putty only stringier. I wonder if it could be thinned down a little with alcohol like ordinary two part epoxies can in order to make it flow and form better?
From what you said, it will stick and harder over your Minwax Hardener?
Jun 03, 2018, 07:02 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
I found building the plywood hull with the materials mentioned has worked and was easy for this novice.
She seems solid and dry. I imagine opened containers of PC-7 might thicken. It doesn't flow. It's been thick enough to stay put but loose enough to easily spread or shape.

I have a snow shovel with wood shaft and molded plastic handle and blade. The handle broke. I glued on a piece of plastic water pipe like the top of the letter "T" with PC-7 and wrapped strips of fiberglass fabric around the joint using the PC-7 to fill the fabric. The shovel is stronger than ever and was easy to fix. Smoothed the whole thing with a gloved hand dipped in denatured alcohol. No cleanup.


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