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Feb 06, 2018, 09:43 AM
Modeler/ Historian
Stephen Vick's Avatar
Foam would not go amiss, so long as it doesn't interfere with any moving parts, or add undue weight. However. I've sailed an Emma and I am observing Carl's build so... I think the hull has plenty of reserve buoyancy, high freeboard, ample beam and stability. So long as the deck edges are sealed and combings used under deckhouses, I don't see the need for foam.
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Feb 06, 2018, 10:01 AM
Registered User
Zbip57's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephensackro
Good question ...... will they float? or should you put in some flotation.
It's been asked before. I've been wondering that too. With the heavy lead keel bulb it surely won't float if filled with water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ourbluehorizon
https://youtu.be/lhrWHSwP4sc
Determined to get her out soon found that wind was maybe a bit too much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zbip57
That was brave. Just curious, did any water get into the hull?
Those were pretty extreme conditions. If Lorraine stayed dry during that, then it's reassuring to see these boats can handle stuff like that.
I'm just wondering whether it's worth considering adding flotation inside the hull, or maybe a bilge pump, or if that's not really something worth worrying about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robcrusoe
No, no pumps, no buoyancy (foam etc.) and in fact, no worries, really. Not even a drain plug.
The Irene is the most stable rc sailboat I’ve ever handled, and there have been a good few. The scuppers are there to take away any wind borne spray and sloshes , but generally the hull is sitting so high out of the water; and Gary’s design is such that it can only heel so far, that even a “lost at sea” hatch cover opening will not take on more than a token amount of water. As the boat is entirely timber there is an inherent degree on buoyancy, but also as the inner hull spaces are completely waterproof they are more than capable of coping with a large amount of water. The only way I can see either an Irene or an Emma going down is if the hull is sufficiently fractured below the waterline. [...]

I’m sure Gary can reassure you when he gets time.
And the definitive response from Gary was...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Webb
Flotation foam? One might consider the possibility of sinking as "realistic" sailing performance?
Cheers, Gary
Ha!
Feb 06, 2018, 10:08 AM
Registered User
Zbip57's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robcrusoe
maybe you can find my shop somewhat, well. different. [...]
Here's a link There are about a dozen photos
Wow! That looks like our local Hobby Supply Store!
Feb 06, 2018, 01:37 PM
Registered User
Ok folks I will add foam. Also I am doing a long-term water test of hot glue with my plywood.
Regards to Gary and all, Irving
Feb 06, 2018, 03:14 PM
Mad on modding
robcrusoe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by irandar
Ok folks I will add foam. Also I am doing a long-term water test of hot glue with my plywood.
Regards to Gary and all, Irving
I've tested hot glue on mine, it is OK for tacking in small blobs but use too much and it will de-laminate the ply trying to get it off. Only way is to grind it off with a dremel. But there are so many alternatives that are quicker and neater. Liquid nails is my choice.

If using foam I haven't seen seen a good reason to use additional buoyancy at all in these boats) but don't use polystyrene. It traps water between the surfaces, and will therefore prevent proper airing out of the hull with dire consequence for the electronics. Hopefully none will suggest the greatest no-no.. expanding foam.
Last edited by robcrusoe; Feb 06, 2018 at 03:19 PM.
Feb 06, 2018, 03:27 PM
Mad on modding
robcrusoe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zbip57
It's been asked before. I've been wondering that too. With the heavy lead keel bulb it surely won't float if filled with water.



And the definitive response from Gary was...



Ha!

Having experienced it not once, but twice, within a minute of each, way back when I first got into rc sailboats, all I can say, it is soul destroying.

And in both instances, the three critical factors for disaster was a sudden storm squall, two hatches that came away, and inexperience.

With Gary's boats the only way sufficient water can get in, fast enough that you can't do something about it, is.. sorry, just not possible.
Last edited by robcrusoe; Feb 06, 2018 at 03:36 PM.
Feb 07, 2018, 01:45 AM
Registered User
More on hot glue:
It can be easily cut and removed with a hot knife or soldering iron . Of course there will still be traces left on the wood.
I made now a 12 h cold-water test with my birch plywood and hot glue. After a few hours nothing changed. After 12 h the hot glue could be peeled away from the wood. The plywood itself showed no change. Also the solid hot glue did not change but no longer adhered.
I suspect that the same might happen with epoxy and will test this today.
Another test I want to make is with acrylic water-base paint. Last year I painted the waterline stripe on my real Leisure 17 sailboat, which was in the water all summer. It remained perfect all season and also the underwater portions of the stripe did not change. I think acrylic paint could be valuable also for boat models.
Regards, Irving
Feb 07, 2018, 10:00 PM
Registered User
Zbip57's Avatar
The ship's wheel is just a paper cutout for the moment.

I made a compass binnacle using Jimbo Sailor's method.

I found a suitable image of a compass dial, shrunk it down, printed it to fit inside a 3/8" compression sleeve fitting, and sealed it in clear epoxy.

That's then mounted on top of a small chunk of brass that I saved as a trophy from a recent two-week long plumbing battle. It's that same @$%#ing little round piece with the black O-ring pictured under "Victory" at the bottom of page 6 in this plumbing thread.
Feb 09, 2018, 06:07 PM
Registered User

Sail material


Very good video from Gary on how to make sails. Gary uses cotton poplin and this seems to work fine. Any other options that I could consider? I guess some people use ripstop material but that would not have any give in the center. I assume you would want some stretch in the center?
Feb 09, 2018, 09:40 PM
Mad on modding
robcrusoe's Avatar
I've just made some sails out of kite quality rip stop. It is very light and has a waterproof coating that doesn't take adhesive very well, if at all.
The cotton poplin is fine for the Emma, it is not intended as a performance boat but the main does have a somewhat undesirable "curl" on the leech due, it seems, to stitching.
When machine stitching the rip stop it appears less affected by puckering than the cotton so hopefully it will provide less of an interruption to airflow across the sail than cotton. Whether it will LOOK as nice, is yet to be seen. I've got an idea that may fix that using cotton, but yet to try it out.
Rip stop has been used on the more conventional Bermuda rigged rc sailboats around here before but with the advent of Mylar it seems to have lost support.
As for Mylar on an Emma, well.. maybe, but it seems too, well, modernistic for a heritage model like this. However, I'll see how the rip stop pans out first.

While I appreciate what you say about the stretch on cotton, Gary is best placed to comment on the pros and cons of such "give" in the material.
Feb 10, 2018, 08:53 AM
Registered User

Servo choices.


Hi Folks,
I see that the Hitec servos are a bit expensive. I find about $60 for the recommended two servos. Has anyone worked out a cheaper way of controlling Sloop Emma? Maybe a winder method or making his own arm with a cheaper servo?
Regards, Irving
Feb 10, 2018, 06:14 PM
Registered User
Hi Irandar,

if you are referring to the Hitec HS-785HB regarding price, I have been using these winches for a number of years. They represent, to me, the best value for money winch on the market for most boating use. They are not as fast, or expensive, as the Guyatt winches which are for a far more specialised market. They are stronger and waaaaay more reliable than anything else that I have found in the sub $100 market. I have no experience with the Hitec HS-755HB sail arm but from its' specifications it appears to be the same electro-mechanically except for the amount of rotation. I would expect them to have the same reliability and longevity.

You pays your money and you make your choice.

Cheers,

Terry
Feb 10, 2018, 07:17 PM
Mad on modding
robcrusoe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by irandar
Hi Folks,
I see that the Hitec servos are a bit expensive. I find about $60 for the recommended two servos. Has anyone worked out a cheaper way of controlling Sloop Emma? Maybe a winder method or making his own arm with a cheaper servo?
Regards, Irving
I've reported this elsewhere here previously but I use the EXI 13kg winch servos , either in the drum version of the standard, arm style.'
If you decide to do something of your own just keep in mind that even the Emmas two sails require a reasonably powerful servo to operate them in brisk conditions. The standard 9kg smaller sized servo is fine for the rudder, any brand (even unbranded) will serve. But that size is totally under-powered for the Emma, and more so for the Irene.
Should you be in or around the USA and use US dollars you can easily get the type I use (for many years, on a variety of boats) at a price that should even fit your purse. you can also get an inexpensive rudder servo there as well. Mind you, if you can afford it, get Hitec.
If you stick to Gary's suggestion (you should) with an arm winch then this one will definitely do a comparable job as the Hitec. Tugboat may furnish details of some in depth testing he has done on these kind of winch servos, I can only depend on my own experiences and that of the 15 or so others in our sailing group that are using them.

Arm style winch servo B1228

Drum style B1226

And since they make standard servos as well, try this for the rudder. B1222

Bottom line is, you must use a drum winch in the Irene, you may also in the Emma, but the arm winch is easier to fit, and cheaper.

I haven't added anything yet on this category but there are other items of interest on www.rcsailboats.pw. There should be a lot more but all takes time.
Feb 12, 2018, 04:22 AM
Mad on modding
robcrusoe's Avatar

Molly G gets some wind to sail with


After weeks of mid-summer light conditions today produced a fine southerly at 10 -15 knots.
With this I was able to wind her up a bit and as the onboard video shows, seldom did water get over the gunwale. But when it might have, and the boat was at speed, , the bow wave created a clear trough so although the boat was well heeled over it didn't take any water over the deck.
The Irene is very nimble when it has the optimum momentum, as you can see.
After 3 hours of this , not all at speed, the screwed down deck only took on half a cup of water overall. Screwed down so it could be removed if required, and gap filler forced in t he tiny space between deck edge and gunwale.

May get a chance in a couple of days to try the Emma out in similar conditions.

Look out for Johnny Depp

RC Schooner , Molly G, racing against general rc sailboats. (5 min 7 sec)


Molly 6 Feb 18 (6 min 21 sec)
Feb 13, 2018, 01:47 PM
Registered User
Zbip57's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robcrusoe
seldom did water get over the gunwale. But when it might have, and the boat was at speed, , the bow wave created a clear trough so although the boat was well heeled over it didn't take any water over the deck.
That looks great! It's very reassuring to see that so little water comes over the deck.

Just curious, how are your camera mounts fastened to the deck?


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