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Feb 10, 2016, 11:54 AM
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Scale up

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Feb 10, 2016, 01:45 PM
Boaters are nice people.
Originally Posted by Irv Lewes DE
The line on my paper copy of the plans measures 4.75 inches. To increase the final plans to measure 24 inches I tell the print shop what ?? Help!! Irv
Hi Irv,

I took the plans to the copy shop on a thumb drive and told them to print the plans at full scale and check if the 24" were indeed 24" before doing the other sheets.

Worked like a charm.

Regards, Jan.
Feb 10, 2016, 02:34 PM
a.k.a. Bob Parks
bbbp's Avatar
The default driver settings for large format printers don't work well, they are usually Print to Fit.

Feb 11, 2016, 11:04 PM
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fitting fin trunk

The fin trunk almost fits. Fin material (aluminum sheet) should be here Saturday. So far this is looking like a good fit.
I may add some stiffeners to Bulkheads 2 and 3. When I think of the long fin levering against those lightweight bulkheads they seem a bit flimsy. I'm thinking of carrying the assembled boat, getting it into and out of the water, running into rocks, etc.
The long servo rails fit now.

[Added on October 20, 2016 There is no need for bulkhead reinforcement, the hull seems strong and rigid.]
Last edited by Paul~; Oct 20, 2016 at 10:30 AM. Reason: postscript added
Feb 12, 2016, 03:52 AM
Boaters are nice people.
Originally Posted by glidin'n'slidin'
I may add some stiffeners to Bulkheads 2 and 3.
Hi Paul,

In the pictures you haven't strengthened the seams with the epoxy fillets (yet) and the deck also adds to the stiffness of the box.

Adding stiffeners won't hurt, but in case of a serious hit, I expect the aluminium to buckle before the hull structure will give...

Regards, Jan.
Feb 12, 2016, 12:53 PM
sailtails - YouTube
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Servo Rails / Fin /Rudder alignment

Hi Paul, Looking good. You mention servo rails, so I will throw in a bit about them. I made mine removable (easier working, painting inside of hull). I did this by glueing blocks to the bulkheads under the servo rails and holding the rails in place with screws into these blocks. The rails can be slipped into place through the aft deck opening even after the deck is permanently in place.
The Fin. Glad you found aluminum, it is the easiest and most suitable option for the fin for this boat. I cut it to shape using a hand held jig saw (saber saw) with a metal cutting blade, then round off the leading edge and taper the trailing edge with a disc sander.If you care to paint it, use a zinc chromate primer (spray can) on the aluminum and bulb before paint.
You have also mentioned your anticipation of aligning the fin & rudder. Relax Mate, No Worry. The fin can flop loosely in the trunk (such is the case in full size craft). I like about 1/16" clearance just so there is room for paint and no chance of things ever becoming jammed. The rudder is a totally separate unit, and is adjusted (steering) to maintain or change course. There is no need for the rudder to be absolutely perfectly in line with the fin. That said, it's easy enough to place it on the centerline, and it will be fine without any great deal of fussing . I know this may sound contrary to what others might say, but that's my offering. Hope this is helpful, and Thanks for sharing your boat building experience with all of us....Gary
Feb 12, 2016, 03:35 PM
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thorsail's Avatar
this is a very interesting build to watch.
I am curious about the keel bulb -do you need to make a mold and pour a
bulb for this ? I was amazed to read she weighs ( all up) 25 lbs. ? wow.
that's heavier than my 70" LOA Santa Barbara !
Can you type a few lines about the bulb construction ? whats required ?
Feb 12, 2016, 05:55 PM
Boaters are nice people.
Hi Allan,

I'm sure Gary can provide pictures of the bulb assembly; the two halves are bolted onto the aluminum keel and faired with putty and paint.

Yes, you'll have to make a mold for half a bulb and pour lead.

I have the plans and will start my build as soon as the weather gets a bit better, as I have to work outside to saw out the parts...

Regards, Jan.
Feb 13, 2016, 09:31 PM
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Thread OP

fin is in

Thanks, Gary, for the advice and perspective. I tend to aim for more precision than is needed and get slowed down. I built a Victoria last winter and read lots of picky construction and trimming info from the racers. Even with my inexperienced build and sailing I really enjoy sailing her.
After weeks of snowfall we've got a warm dry spell allowing work outside. Bicycled on snow to Ace Hardware and got 1/4" solid round brass, 9/32 brass tube, and 1/2" dowel. Then rode to Post Office and collected the aluminum sheet. Some TLAR drafting and some paper cutting produced a template for the fin. With the outline inked on the plate, masking tape was used to protect the surface. Bosch T118G jigsaw blades (2) cut this 3003 alloy quickly enough. An angle grinder, rasp, and file are being used to round, taper, and smooth the edges.
I had to re-cut to get some clearance in the trunk. Then the fin was inserted into the trunk and they were drilled together.
One of the photos shows Steamboat ski area as background.
Feb 14, 2016, 12:21 PM
sailtails - YouTube
Gary Webb's Avatar

Lead Bulb casting

Hi Guys, Fin looks great Paul. I don't have photos of the mold I used for Irene's half bulbs, but have a photo of a very similar mold. Also, a series of photos showing the casting of the lead onto the aluminum fin using a mold made in much the same way. I actually prefer the half bulbs bolted to the plate just as shown on the "Irene" plans. Here's why, Lead is quite soft and easily dinged. The aluminum plate on the centerline provides support and protection for what would otherwise be a rather delicate edge of of the lead casting. Also, it's easier to heat & pour the (half size) half bulb. I assemble the mold pieces with silicone sealant to assure no leaks, and oil the wood with motor oil (wipe away excess). I stand the mold on end to pour. Wear leather gloves and goggles. There will be smoke and spatter, do not be alarmed, pour a slow and steady stream from start to finish. My molds made of pine boards have proven useful for at least 4 or 5 pours. The rather crude shape of the casting is easily faired with an angle grinder fitted with a sanding disc.
Feb 14, 2016, 12:59 PM
sailtails - YouTube
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More on mold making

Hi again Guys, I'd like to explain how I determine the size/shape of the mold to achieve proper weight of the bulb. Some trial and error is involved. Cut boards, assemble, and fill with sand. Empty the sand into a Campbell soup can, and calculate the volume of the sand. ( V = pi x R sq x H ) Combine this info with the fact that lead weighs .4 lbs / cu in ( 11 grams/ cu cm ). Recut or reshape the mold as needed. I suggest the casting should be about a half pound heavier than needed to allow for fairing.
I'll add that "Irene", built close to the plans, will be happy with 12 lbs of lead. She is big enough that she is not terribly sensitive, one pound more or less on the overall weight will hardly be noticed. Photo shows mold after use.
Feb 14, 2016, 03:26 PM
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thorsail's Avatar
I found a video on utube with Mr. Bear and his son, talking about his
schooner build-very interesting. ( "Irene" is the daughter-in-law).
He states the bulb should be 14 lbs.
When I was just a kid, my Dad had one of these ( see pic) in the garage.
who would have thunk all these decades later.......hindsight, eh ?
he used it for pipe repairs in the buildings he managed- caulk and solder.
old school plumbing w/ iron pipe.
maybe one day people will be looking on fleabay for pvc cement and that
purple primer/cleaner stuff ?
Feb 15, 2016, 11:29 PM
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Thread OP

PC 7 Epoxy

The PC 7 epoxy paste is very thick and stays right where you put it. It doesn't seem to sag on vertical surfaces and has a long working time. One of its parts is gray and the other black so you can see when it is fully mixed. I'm not spreading it very smoothly but am confident it will produce strong, waterproof joints.

(Added after hull was completed) The 5 minute and 30 minute epoxies I used were really hard to sand or cut down. The PC-7 sands easily and can be cut down with a rasp or Stanley Surform cutter. It also can be shaped and smoothed when wet using denatured alcohol as a lubricant. It can also be molded and pressed into shape after 8 or 10 hours when it's stiffened a bit.
I recommend it for all the hull joints. I liked gluing the bulkheads with 5 minute epoxy. CA glue took almost as long to set and was too watery. The bulkhead joints can be reinforced later with PC-7 fillets.
A bit of experimentation with the PC-7 would provide the skills to shape and smooth it so very little cutting or sanding would be needed once it's solidified. I just gobbed it on and let it set messily, oops.
Last edited by Paul~; Jan 26, 2018 at 04:53 AM. Reason: Hindsight
Feb 16, 2016, 11:46 AM
Registered User
Hello Everyone,

I am also building an "Irene" Schooner. But I decided to build it in a smaller Scale, so tosay a miniature Irene.... in Scale 1:35. It is only about 50 cm long and made from Polistyrol. I hope you enjoy the pictures.

she is not yet complete, but close....

Regards from Germany
Feb 16, 2016, 12:48 PM
Registered User
Greetings, That's really neat, good job Daniel.


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