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Feb 23, 2017, 03:38 PM
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FishBait's Avatar
Loading the seams rather than the tongue depressor is a better technique. The screwdriver worked well. Thanks Gary.
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Feb 23, 2017, 05:58 PM
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Boot Camp was 61 years and 6 months ago. We called it SQUARE BASHING. Oh to be young again.
Feb 24, 2017, 06:56 PM
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Thread OP

two jibs?


Almost every photo I see of schooners shows at least two jibs. How about two on Irene?
Also I'm wondering about securing the sail feet to the booms. Better shape? More scale detail?
Feb 24, 2017, 10:19 PM
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Irene


Securing the length of the foot of a sail to a straight boom does a great job of removing the camber in the bottom third of the sail. A flat sails produces little or no drive. I constantly remind folks that foot constraints to the boom were caused by the relative weakness of the original sail cloth that both model sailmakers and prototype sailmakers had to work with in the "olden days".

RIG THE JIBS LOOSE FOOTED. They will both perform better, and look better when the boat is on display.
Feb 24, 2017, 11:09 PM
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Gary Webb's Avatar

Jib(s) & Loose feet


Quote:
Originally Posted by glidin'n'slidin'
Almost every photo I see of schooners shows at least two jibs. How about two on Irene?
Also I'm wondering about securing the sail feet to the booms. Better shape? More scale detail?
Hi Paul, You really do bring up TOP QUALITY QUESTIONS. I like that!
MULTIPLE JIBS - True, most larger schooners fly two or more jibs. But not all, check out the photo below of the 104' overall Pungy schooner"Lady Maryland". The well known black hulled Alden 41' schooner "Malabar 2" is another example of a single jib schooner. On rigs with multiple jibs, the outer jib(s) should overlap and sheeting them properly makes for considerable complexity in a model. Irene's sail plan (all sails self tending on booms) was chosen for it's simplicity.
LOOSE FOOTED SAILS - Irene's main and foresail (cotton) could be secured to the booms. I would not expect much difference in performance, but it could be a nice touch of detail.
Her Jib is another story, and is quite proper the way it is. Loose footed jibs (with booms) are common practice on full size boats. Notice that Irene's jib boom pivots a ways aft of the tack of the sail. This is done purposely and serves like this. (Geometry) When the jib is let out, the sail can belly out and be a good wind catcher. When the jib is sheeted in, the foot is tightened up, flattening the sail into a better "airfoil" shape for working to windward. A fine example of SIMPLE performance.
Thanks Paul, you keep us on our toes (a good thing).
Last edited by Gary Webb; Feb 25, 2017 at 01:32 PM. Reason: added word "cotton"
Feb 24, 2017, 11:18 PM
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Gary Webb's Avatar

Sail wisdom


Quote:
Originally Posted by RodACarr
Securing the length of the foot of a sail to a straight boom does a great job of removing the camber in the bottom third of the sail. A flat sails produces little or no drive. I constantly remind folks that foot constraints to the boom were caused by the relative weakness of the original sail cloth that both model sailmakers and prototype sailmakers had to work with in the "olden days".

RIG THE JIBS LOOSE FOOTED. They will both perform better, and look better when the boat is on display.
Thanks for your input Rod, we do appreciate it, and it's good to know you're watching out for us.
Feb 25, 2017, 12:03 AM
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Thread OP

RCGroups again being my guide!


Thank you both Rod and Gary! What a privilege to learn from the masters.
I enjoy being the ignorant and curious lover of sailboats, a new thing for me.
The first time my Victoria glided across the pond I was hooked.
My other big interest these days is finding answers on the Internet. Most of my life questions have remained unanswered. These are amazing times

Gary, I forget Irene was created primarily to carry cameras, you've put so much love into her

I have a 1turn winch servo coming, a GWS 125 for the camera mount.
Feb 26, 2017, 06:34 PM
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Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Webb
Notice that Irene's jib boom pivots a ways aft of the tack of the sail. This is done purposely and serves like this. (Geometry) When the jib is let out, the sail can belly out and be a good wind catcher. When the jib is sheeted in, the foot is tightened up, flattening the sail into a better "airfoil" shape for working to windward. A fine example of SIMPLE performance.
Great explanation. Pretty amazing how all this was worked out hundreds of years ago!

So why does my Victoria not pivot the jib boom in this way? It's jib has the same shape sheeted in or out.
Last edited by Paul~; Feb 26, 2017 at 07:20 PM. Reason: adding pictures
Feb 26, 2017, 06:39 PM
Registered User

Victoria Jib Rigging


Why not rig the jib that way and see what the change in performance is on the race course? Then report back to us with a description of your rigging configuration, and the basis for your performance evaluation.
Feb 26, 2017, 07:17 PM
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Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodACarr
Why not rig the jib that way and see what the change in performance is on the race course? Then report back to us with a description of your rigging configuration, and the basis for your performance evaluation.
Golly Rod, I've never raced. I barely know how to sail. Just getting into this thing of sleek boats gliding silently across the pond. Seems to me the serious racers would have covered this decades ago.
I sure appreciate your input.
Feb 27, 2017, 12:55 PM
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Gary Webb's Avatar

Old Ways


Quote:
Originally Posted by glidin'n'slidin'
Golly Rod, I've never raced. I barely know how to sail. Just getting into this thing of sleek boats gliding silently across the pond. Seems to me the serious racers would have covered this decades ago.
I sure appreciate your input.
I reckon the racers do have it covered Paul. My own experience is almost entirely with old "traditional" boats & rigs and, for better or for worse, my boat designs reflect these old ways. They are simple, inexpensive, and they work, but are not likely to win races today. That said, I must say I have been pleased at how well they do sail alongside modern craft. I do have a brand new set of Rod Carr sails for Irene. I have not had a chance to use them yet, but expect she will go a bit better. I'm looking forward to fun sailing at the pond...Gary
Mar 01, 2017, 07:13 PM
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FishBait's Avatar
Gary, what material did you choose for the Rod Carr sails? Did you stay with the original sail size and shape?
Mar 01, 2017, 09:16 PM
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EMMA and IRENE Sails


We prefer our soft 2 oz dacron sailcloth for both single panel construction, and multi-panel construction for IRENE and/or EMMA sails. The cloth is firm enough to serve well in both configurations, does not stretch when wet like lighter weight nylon, and resists creasing so that when the boats are on display, the sails take on a smooth, well cambered appearance that is pleasing to the eye and makes the boat look like it is still working in the wind.
Mar 01, 2017, 10:00 PM
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Gary Webb's Avatar

Sail material


Quote:
Originally Posted by FishBait
Gary, what material did you choose for the Rod Carr sails? Did you stay with the original sail size and shape?
Hi Rick, I followed Rod's advice for material. He used Irene's original sail plan and fancied things up a bit, adding a modest roach and battens where appropriate. I left these details up to Rod, and the sails are beautiful. Trust Rod. He has both sail plans for Irene and the plan for Emma.
Mar 01, 2017, 11:41 PM
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Thread OP
How's the Bear going to afford them? I guess the extra speed will provide extra $$$!


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