Non-foiling trimarans and catamarans - Page 5 - RC Groups
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Apr 05, 2017, 08:33 AM
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DLord's Avatar

Gosport


Gosport results: http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...ril-2017/page2
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Jul 22, 2017, 02:08 PM
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So, reading over this thread again I think that there is a lot of interesting info that seems to fall on mostly deaf ears. The focus of most of of the threads here on this forum have to do with the Dragon Force Monohulls and IOMs. I think one of the problems of Multis finding popularity in the US is that the general movement in model r/c yachts is toward smaller boats that are off the shelf. Off the shelf is where model r/c cars have gone.

In Europe the trend is to go bigger (2m or Mini40). In the US I think a 1meter or 65M should be the focus for building interest. These smaller size Multis don't have to be car topped to get to a sailing site. And since there are few companies that produce 1meters or 65Ms that are either in budget realms or actually perform well are rare. Home built boats are for the near future the way to build interest. To due so the US folks who want Multis to find a niche in model yacht sailing I think they have to focus on one class to promote.

The 1meter has some history overseas although the Mini40 seems their focus now. Of course they also sail in larger venues than is the norm in the US. The 65M is maybe a bit too small to perform well. But, if the eventual ideal is to have regattas a smaller boat would mean closer sailing, more tactical sailing = faster development of design, and the adjustment of courses to highlight the Multihull pluses.

In the short term there have to be lines and section drawings for current designs ready for download. I have not built a 65M or 1meter so I don't feel comfortable supplying anything yet. But Dick and/or Doug who have a lot of experience in Multis might make/provide designs that the rest of us might build. But first I think the guys who have been involved in promoting Multihulls should make some decisions about a class to focus on.

Also note in the videos in earlier posts show how disorganized rounding a mark was in a Mini40, with a boat all most as long as an M boat and almost the same width as it is long rounding a mark means some boats that are overlapped on the outside of several boats could find that the round 12 or 16 feet from the mark. It also seemed that a few of these boats stalled while rounding, that could lead to a disaster and a build up of boats. the Mini40 races on YouTube show only 5 or 6 boats in a heat. While their speed and acceleration is exciting, the number of boats that can fit on a course is very small. Compare the starting line with an IOM regatta's. That is more what we want to go for I think. Makes a better video, and better internet promotion!
Jul 22, 2017, 02:59 PM
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Dick L.'s Avatar
I thought about that too when reading the thread about overlaps of 2, 3, or even 5 boat lengths. Given a boat of two meters, a 5 boat length of up to 15 feet at each mark wouldn't be excessive. A lot more room than if sailing a one meter boat is needed.

I have my 1 meter tri (sold, sailed, messed up, and returned to me) getting set for complete refurbish/overhaul this winter. Maybe stick with this size for competition, and use the new 2 meter strictly for fun sailing and "wow" factor....at least for now.
Jul 22, 2017, 06:15 PM
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Well, a 1meter is more in the direction of a boat without the restrictions of internal space for the battery, receiver, and servos, which is a real challenge in real racing Footys that have narrow hulls and wedging in even micro r/c requires some imagination. I don't have a Force2 60 so I don't know how they perform or how their guts are arranged, but I have no fear about how to get micro gear in a fast Footy. Of course I have been designing and racing Monohulls for over 40 years. A newbe would probably see it in a 65M as insurmountable. Dick, have you tried building and/or sailing a 65M, or is your only experience sailing your Joysway boat (that you sound like you are not very impressed by).

However, a 1meter multi would be close to the space limits of my car's trunk.

There do seem to be some ready-to-sail-off-the-shelf 1meter (or close to this length) boats. On YouTube I saw a good looking 1meter trimaran that was from "Box", a newish company? It sported "Z" foils and T-Foil rudders, but was a good looking set of hulls if you overlooked the foils.

I believe that there are several old plans for 1meter designs, while dating from the last century they might be a good starting point to promote the 1meter as the main class to compete with.
Jul 22, 2017, 07:23 PM
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Dick L.'s Avatar
The 1 meter of mine (sold, raced ?? and almost destroyed, then returned) needs a bit more attention then I thought was needed. The owner didn't treat it kindly, and looks like something hit it from the rear in order to break the rear cross beam support loose from the port hull. I probably will also make up a new set of sails since the original ones were built to maximum area and are too powerful in all but the lightest winds.

The photo attached is on my own 65M design (plus wing) which is based on current A Class cat design. I got this far with the hull shaping and then opted to buy my Force 2-60 to see how they did the electronics layout. Found my hulls significantly narrower than the F2-60 but see where I can shoe-horn in the radio gear. I'd rather not go to a center mounted pod for radio gear - more because of "looks" if I didn't have to.

The F2-60 sailing has improved, but is still touchy. I haven't solved the transoms down in a capsize yet. Even with masthead float it wants to rotate until the transoms are down, then go turtle. Good winds are probably 8-10 with flat water. If no waves, one might be able to push it to maybe 15 mph or so. I could see that if the 65M class were to take off, the class might consider a maximum wind speed limit This might help encourage a small but very tender boat.
Jul 23, 2017, 09:13 AM
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DLord's Avatar

multiONE Class


Here are the rules for the multiOne class that a few of us put together years ago: http://www.rcsails.com/download/MultiONE.pdf
Jul 23, 2017, 10:40 AM
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Dick L.'s Avatar
Thanks, Doug.

At one time there was a MultiONE website, but can't recall who set it up and was maintaining it. Haven't found any copies in my files, but if anyone knows, please post it here.

Thanks.
Jul 23, 2017, 11:01 AM
aardvark issues
I don't know anything about the Multi one, but I think there's probably sense in having a 1M class, that has 3 rigs with sail areas set to coincide with the IOM so that people can hot swap if they want, or build there own.

I have built a platform to try it out, but keep getting distracted by more Mini40's.
Jul 23, 2017, 11:14 AM
The wind is free, go sailing!
Scratchy101's Avatar
You mean like this?
Jul 23, 2017, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick L.
Thanks, Doug.

At one time there was a MultiONE website, but can't recall who set it up and was maintaining it. Haven't found any copies in my files, but if anyone knows, please post it here.

Thanks.
Was me. IIRC I still have the files somewhere and the URL.

I do think it was a bit ahead of it's time. With some of the advances out there perhaps it would be easier now.

Hmm, wonder how well 3D printed beam attachment fittings would work. Maybe some printed foils?
Jul 23, 2017, 01:23 PM
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Dick L.'s Avatar
Hi there, good to hear from you.

Do you have the ability/desire to refurbish the site and bring it back online?
PM or email me offline for any questions or discussion.

I think this size (MultiONE) and the 65M size are most viable sizes for the American marketplace. I don't see much interest in the Mini40/Formula48 taking off in great numbers, and my own 2 meter probably will remain a day sailing boat. Not sure I would want to haul it and gear to UK or France.

Dick
Jul 23, 2017, 03:15 PM
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DLord's Avatar

not non-foiling but multiOne


I haven't had the time to develop it but I'm 100% convinced that a self-righting multiONE is a viable concept using a ballast keel. The bulb could even be removable. If people could sail a fast rc multihull with no worries about capsize I think that could make a big difference. When Hugh Welbourn introduced the first fullsize keelboat foiler in 2015(Quant 23) I knew I was right. I may have some time coming up next year to finally get on this project. In the meantime , the D2 will sail (fly) fairly soon and is a foiler with a ballast keel-possibly a proof of concept for the multiONE.
Jul 24, 2017, 10:33 AM
Thomas Armstrong
"MultiONE" is a subclass of the "Mini40" class (also called "F48" class). You'll find much mor variety in the Mini40 (includes MultiONE):
http://www.allradiosailboats.com/class/mini40
(Yes, Mini40 are 122cm and MultiONE just 100cm in LOA, but still a sublcass)

There is also a 65cm multi class called "65M":
http://www.allradiosailboats.com/class/65M
Jul 24, 2017, 11:46 AM
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Dick L.'s Avatar
Thomas,

just my personal opinion, but merging classes isn't the way to go.

By your suggestion,..... the 65M Class would/could be considered a sub-class of the MultiONE Class, which is as you suggest a sub-class of the Mini40/F48 Class, which then becomes a sub-class of the 2 Meter Class.

When some of us started thinking of the MultiONE Class back in early 2000's we had no intention of rolling all of the various sizes into a single class made up of sub-classes. That is like saying (with tongue-in-cheek) the Footy Class is a sub-class of the 10R class with all the various size monohulls falling in between as sub-sub-sub-classes.. In the end, I'm not sure owners would be happy if they sailed their Mini40's but then had to wait for all the (much) smaller classes to finish the course. Would be like a flock of sparrows flying around and tormenting a hawk or crow. Lots of action on the water, I suppose, but perhaps too much?
Jul 24, 2017, 12:17 PM
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How about this-- get ten people to commit to build r/c multihulls of a specified size by a specified date and hold a race. Otherwise it will be simply a continuation of what has been going on for the last decade in the U.S.-- two or three people talking to each other about multihull classes and races that never happen.

Particularly, Neil you claim you put together an A boat kit and got a club to build multiple boats. Why not get that group to build a multihull kit rather than spending time on the web talking to people who are thousands of miles away from you?


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