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Jul 17, 2004, 09:21 AM
Good thing balsa floats!
Rain City Flyer's Avatar
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Werner Stark's KIS Mini F3K DLG Mini(!) Review


This thread will be a mini review of Werner Stark's all balsa/ply 1M DLG.

Werner (from Austria) is known as the originator of the KIS (Keep It Simple) line of HLG's. I originally ran across his planes as Mosquito class HLG's posted on the http://www.scrollsander.com/Soaring-MHLG.htm website. Werner has since moved on to DLG and has made many efforts to get low-cost gliders into the hands of as many people as possible by offering up free plans and now by mentoring local youth in the sport.

Details are at his site (in German only). http://members.aon.at/wstark/bobo/mini/mini.html

Details:

Wing - Solid balsa (preshaped balsa with flaperons) 990mm
Tails - Balsa Vertical fin and Elevator (no rudder) with Spectra pull string and internal spring mechanism.
Boom - Pultruded CF shaft
Pod - .6 & 1mm plywood with light balsa hatch
AUW - 6.45 ounces

Here's the amazing part. This plane comes PRE-BUILT. That's right, open the box install 3 screws and it looks like the photos below. The wings are sealed, assembled, flaperons cut and hinged, tails are cut, shaped, reinforced and hinged with the amazing .3mm SS spring hinge already installed. All you have to do is drop your gear in and go!

My plane was terribly mistreated by the postal service and required some minor repairs to get it back to "factory" condition. I've shown Werner the triangular box that the USPS sells and he'll be trying that to see if it helps.

I'm using 3 GWS pico servos (flaperons & elev.), a Berg 5 rx and CR2 lithiums for power.

I'll be taking this plane for it's maiden voyage today and will report back with results.

FYI - Werner also makes a 1.5M version of this same plane.

Enjoy!

Chris in Seattle
Last edited by Rain City Flyer; Jul 17, 2004 at 09:26 AM.
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Jul 19, 2004, 09:18 AM
Good thing balsa floats!
Rain City Flyer's Avatar
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First Flights


My KIS Mini had it's first flights over the weekend. Launches were smooth and straight. 1/2 power got me to 50-60 feet (at a small field). This plane's flying style is certainly different than the small R/E SAL planes I usually play with. The finger pocket tip grip took some getting used to, but seems to work fine.

The smallish (for me) elvator throws and long tail moment will take some adjustment for me. It flies very smoothly and was even tolerating some gusty wind conditions.

I look forward to taking this plane to a larger field where I can really try a full strength launch as well as a zip start or two (the mini comes w/towhook installed).

All in all a very rewarding experience.

Chris in Seattle
Jul 20, 2004, 09:43 PM
Registered User
ifome's Avatar
Looks nice! Chris How much did it cost with shipping?
Todd
Jul 21, 2004, 07:47 AM
Good thing balsa floats!
Rain City Flyer's Avatar
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You'll have to contact Werner for a quote. Mine was sent as a "Toy" to avoid duty and it seemed to work. His advertised price was 60 euro's. Check today's exchange and add around $25 for shipping to get an idea.

Chris in Seattle
Jul 28, 2004, 10:24 PM
Good thing balsa floats!
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Review Update 7-28


I've had a few more opportunities to fly this plane as well as help Werner with his English instructions. I really like both the plane and the builder.

The more I fly, the more I'm enjoying the ailerons. I haven't missed the rudder as much as I thought.

Launches improve as I get used to the finger hole instead of a peg. I'm probably getting closed to 75-80 feet now without killing myself. I've been playing with the supplied shims and working out the trim. The KIS launches very straight, and I haven't even been using the recommended presets.

It was missing a little elevator authority for my liking, but all I needed was a little strip of 3M Crystal Clear tape applied to both sides ot the TE and trimmed to about 1/4" to create a little more elevator area. I now get the pop-up I'm looking for to bring it home at ground effect altitude and then pop it up for a hand catch. It flies pretty fast, so those flaperons have come in handy.

Werner's got a winner on his hands. I look forward to a trip to the big field to try the zip launch.

Anyone who's looking for a little RTF Austrian flavor in their glider should check this out. http://members.aon.at/wstark/bobo/mini/mini.html

Enjoy!

Chris in Seattle
Jul 29, 2004, 02:13 PM
Registered User
AndyMb's Avatar
Greay little flyer. Want to make one for me. How heavy/light is this ?
Just downloaded the plans and was thinking to use fuse from an r.i.p. hlg and shorten it a bit.
You have any pictures of your own ?

regards, Andrej (Slovenia)
Jul 29, 2004, 03:25 PM
Real Men Fly Pink Planes...
kepople's Avatar
http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/tr

Here is a translator.
http://members.aon.at/wstark/bobo/mini/mini.html
Cut and paste the link above into the "translate Page" window, pick german to english and it will then link through all the following plans pages.

Looks like a cool glider. I wonder how it would do made from foam with CF spar for light chucking around?

Kirby
Jul 29, 2004, 05:09 PM
Good thing balsa floats!
Rain City Flyer's Avatar
Thread OP
Andrej - It weighs about 175-180 grams and floats amazingly well. A little down trim or reflex in the flapperons and it moves out!

I can post some pictures of mine, but it is EXACTLY like the promo photo. My plane is number 96, individually signed and dedicated to me. Quite a nice touch.

Werner is a sawdust making, glider building machine! OK, if you believe Werner, he's an old guy that builds gliders as "toys" for fun, not profit, drinks beer to wash down the balsa dust and that each one is handmade and a little unique. Did I mention that his apprentices scored 3 of the top 4 positions (including 1st) in the junior class in a recent HL contest in Croatia with this plane?

I believe that he's even pondering a money back (less shipping) guarantee. That's amazing! Send it back in as many pieces as it happens to be in, he'll glue it back together and fly it in the next contest! (Check with Werner for details...)

The fuse is simple birch ply and balsa, the spar is a plain old pultruded CF piece. The spring/string actuated elevator is new to me in the US, but it works great. I did add more elevator surface area to get the plane to my liking. The tail feathers are contest grade (very light) balsa. The wing on mine is set up for flaperons, but can be made with regular ailerons instead and fly on 2 channels. All the wood surfaces are covered in tinted polyurethane. He recommends a coat of floor wax if you plan to get it wet.

Kirby - Werner's made a "very light version" (150g) but the materials were more expensive, it was more fragile and it didn't fly any better. You could certainly give it a shot and post your results.

Chris in Seattle
Jul 29, 2004, 05:38 PM
Real Men Fly Pink Planes...
kepople's Avatar
I think I sent him an email just now about getting one...well we will see if he gets it.

kirby
Jul 29, 2004, 09:11 PM
Live for speed
GoFaster's Avatar
I have an Entry and Mini on the way. He's got very unusual payment terms. Really nice guy.

- Felix
Jul 29, 2004, 09:51 PM
Real Men Fly Pink Planes...
kepople's Avatar
oooppss.. now I see the order form.
Kirby
Aug 01, 2004, 08:15 AM
Registered User
Hi KIS fans out there in the US,
its me,Werner from Austria.
Up to now, I have sold 48 KIS ENTRY DLG (span 59 ") and
102 KIS MINI DLG (span 39 ") throughout Europe.
Your interest in my Keep It Simple (and cheap) designs honors me.
Especially as you can simply get highend ships like Encore,XP-4,
Taboo,SGII a.s.o within your country.
I am just testing "overseas" shipments.....

regards
Werner
Aug 01, 2004, 09:06 AM
Registered User

Howto Kis


As my Homepage infos about my KIS models are still in German only,
I have attached HOWTOKIS.DOC (Word format).
This will you give some insight about my designs.
Thanks to Chris from Seattle for his support to get this translation
readable/understandable.

regards
Werner
Aug 01, 2004, 03:04 PM
Registered User
Hi,

Can anyone compare this to the seeker ?

thanks
Tm
Aug 01, 2004, 10:29 PM
Good thing balsa floats!
Rain City Flyer's Avatar
Thread OP

Apples vs. Oranges


Both are gliders, that's about it.

The Seeker is cutting edge composite (EPS & packing tape) and cutting edge design.

The KIS Mini is well designed, low tech, basic balsa and plywood. It's european look and control methods (spring elevator & trilerons) are literally "foreign" to many of us in the USA.

Both have taken different routes to a similar result - Fun Flying!

I have both and would tend to use them for different applications. The Seeker comes apart quickly and packs for travel. The KIS does not. The KIS has Flaperons for under $100, great for trying out the next step past RE ships. The Seeker is manuverable in ways the KIS can only dream of. The KIS can recover from any field mishap with a bottle of thin CA. The Seeker comes with the best builder's manual on the planet, the KIS goes together with three screws...

I could keep going, but I hope I've given you a little to chew on. Get both, go flying.


Chris in Seattle


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