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Sep 07, 2015, 11:53 AM
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vario to detect thermals


am trying to learn from you guys who use a vario what is your experience on detecting thermals; what shapes have you detected;
their size, strenght, how they evolve as they rise, how they change their shape.
recently am beginning to use 1 and am trying to learn more about them. i consider that with a vario we have the way to learn more based on hard data. there are so many theories about them that i think this is the only way to clarify that.

any input based on your experience is welcome.
please comments polite, positive and to the point.

guys who use a vario.
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Sep 07, 2015, 12:31 PM
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You might like to research total energy compensation.

Or at least use proper static ports.

In my experience, just shoving the variometer inside the fuselage without proper plumbing is usable only as a random number generator. Ymmv.
Sep 07, 2015, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkettu
You might like to research total energy compensation.

Or at least use proper static ports.

In my experience, just shoving the variometer inside the fuselage without proper plumbing is usable only as a random number generator. Ymmv.
i said: am trying to learn from you guys who use a vario what is your experience on detecting thermals; what shapes have you detected;
their size, strenght, how they evolve as they rise, how they change their shape.
sir: do you have a vario? do you have experience using it?
why are you saying those things?
your comments are not relevant.
please read my request: guys who use a vario. and: please comments polite, positive and to the point.
keep this thread clean.
Last edited by phil alvirez; Sep 07, 2015 at 01:42 PM.
Sep 07, 2015, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil alvirez
sir: do you have a vario? do you have experience using it?
Yes and yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkettu
In my experience, just shoving...


Quote:
Originally Posted by phil alvirez
your comments are not relevant.
If you say so, in that case please feel free to disregard them. Apologies for intruding in your thread. (I wasn't trying to be difficult, but just point out something that I consider worth taking into account. Again, sorry if I manged to offend you.)
Sep 07, 2015, 03:41 PM
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i said: am trying to learn from you guys who use a vario what is your experience on detecting thermals; what shapes have you detected;
their size, strenght, how they evolve as they rise, how they change their shape.
then,
what can you tell about this?
Sep 07, 2015, 03:42 PM
MTT
MTT
I care about rising air !
MTT's Avatar
Jkettu, you are mistaken...
Yes, a vario with energy compensation will give you a mor exact reading, but a vario without energy compensation also is a very good tool to detect lift.
Without energy compensation, the vario will signal lift or sink, be it true climbing/sinking, or pilot induced....
I have used both, the basic, a the one with energy compensation, and both are very helpful to find lift, and stay in it.
It is much more than a " random number generator"
But, as with so many other things, you have to understand it, and learn how to use it...

@ Phil Alvarez :
I have used both the Skymelody and the picolario, and both do a good job at indicating lift/sink. An added, very important benefit of both is the battery voltage readout, it has saved me at least once from losing a model due to depleted batteries.
Last edited by MTT; Sep 08, 2015 at 12:46 AM.
Sep 07, 2015, 03:55 PM
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my solution


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT

@ Phil Alvarez :
I have used both the Skymelody and the picolario, and both do a good job at indicating lift/sink. An added, very important benefit of both is the battery voltage readout, it has saved me at least once from losing a model due to depleted batteries.
thank you for your input. the 1 am using is from new zealand (not available at the time) that gives tones when climbing, or tells altitude when flipping a switch. this lets me pinpoint the area of raising air like as if it were a visible cloud. and regarding the battery condition i have the vibrator (5 grams and about $20) that plugs into the charging plug: https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ith_Alarm.html
but i need to hear from you guys what else you can tell with your experience. thanks again.
Sep 07, 2015, 05:04 PM
Yep, Naza-controlled Tricopter
tonyestep's Avatar
I have tried several and found that the WSTech is my favorite. It has several voice modes, of which the best is the one that tells you your altitude change in the past 20 seconds. This is very enlightening, and Phil could answer his own question by flying with one of these for a season.

As for the total energy comp, it is totally unnecessary. If you are a good thermal pilot, you will have no trouble realizing when you are getting a tone shift due to a speed change.
Sep 07, 2015, 05:25 PM
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George Franklin's Avatar
I have a Taranis with the high precision vario with no compensation. I didn't use compensation when I flew full scale although I have to admit it might have been useful, but the best glider I flew was a Schweizer 1-35. You really need better performance than that for compensation to be useful.
I can generally tell when I get stick thermals with the Taranis. And don't have trouble establishing the shape of thermals. Sensitivity is good enough while watching that I don't really feel the need for compensation. I have altitude announcements on a 3 position switch, none, every 10 seconds or every 40 seconds. The altitude announcements helps me keep track of my progress or lack thereof.
Last edited by George Franklin; Sep 07, 2015 at 07:22 PM.
Sep 07, 2015, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyestep
I have tried several and found that the WSTech is my favorite. It has several voice modes, of which the best is the one that tells you your altitude change in the past 20 seconds. This is very enlightening, and Phil could answer his own question by flying with one of these for a season.

As for the total energy comp, it is totally unnecessary. If you are a good thermal pilot, you will have no trouble realizing when you are getting a tone shift due to a speed change.
my vario also tells the altitude every number of seconds as i program it, so i don't need the 1 you suggest.
and regarding my question, i guess you mean what i asked: 'am trying to learn from you guys who use a vario what is your experience on detecting thermals; what shapes have you detected. their size, strenght, how they evolve as they rise, how they change their shape.'
as you see, i would like to hear what is your experience, so how could i answer my question?
Sep 08, 2015, 12:44 AM
MTT
MTT
I care about rising air !
MTT's Avatar
Forgot to mention the altitude readout...
On the picolario, you can program it, as already mentioned, to read out altitude at given intervals, or on demand by programming it to a switch on your TX.
Lift/sink is indicated by changing tones, sink is a low-pitched continuos tone, the pitch gets lower as sink rate increases.
Lift is indicated by a higher pitched beeping, pitch and beeping frequency increase with climb rate.
When the model is just holding altitude without sinking or climbing, you get a medium pitched continuos tone,
Most various today also come with data logger and GPS features, which chan be downloaded to a PC or tablet.

Here some links to websites of various manufacturers :
Picolario : http://www.thommys.com/picolariocom/index.html
Skymelody : http://www.tek-variometer.de/englisch/
Pitlab : http://www.pitlab.com/skyassistant-variometer.html
WSTech :http://www.wstech.de/

Sorry couldn't find an English language page for the WSTech
Sep 08, 2015, 03:41 AM
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Thread OP

no tone


the only difference with the vario from nz is that:
When the model is just holding altitude without sinking or climbing, it does not send a tone (which to me, is less anoying).

still, can you provide data about my question: what is your experience on detecting thermals; what shapes have you detected;
their size, strenght, how they evolve as they rise, how they change their shape.

thanks
Last edited by phil alvirez; Sep 08, 2015 at 03:48 AM.
Sep 08, 2015, 04:34 AM
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Philosophically speaking [writing], I point out the obvious that most of us surely know:

1. Soaring birds have very sensitive "instrumentation" AND analysis ability; they can precisely sense pressure and velocity changes, using their thousands of cover feathers [esp. on their head] as well as "inner ear accelerometers". They can sense oncoming thunderstorms more than a half-hour away and can keep their heads inertially locked in space in almost any inertial frame of reference. My birds can sense a slightly cracked-open apt. window three rooms away.

2. Because of this they can core out in thermals much better than we even though their L/D and min sink is worse than most RC sailplanes. But an experienced sailplane pilot can often find thermals better than they due to our greater cognition.

3. The inherent silence of RC soaring is a major enjoyment factor for many; even the cockpit whoosh of fullsize soaring is less intrusive than a constant acoustic variometer input.

4. For scientific purposes or perhaps contests, where the main "fun" is to learn & explore or to win, the variometer sound is useful and no problem. Everyone has their own ability and interests, but having won more than a few thermal contests [or placed highly, losing points for imperfect spot landings with my Hobies] and normally having raptors or gulls coming to "my" thermals instead of the reverse, my personal enjoyment and thermal-finding ability does not need to include variometers [except when flying fullsize, in which case I've also been taught to use the cockpit wind sound as airspeed indicator].

So I applaud Phil's scientific approach, merely pointing out that like Ballet, technique must be pedantically learned and practiced before it becomes art, that the violin requires 10 years of study and practice before one can produce really good music with it .... and that, like fishing, soaring has a scientific basis but in the end, soaring is an art: there are far too many stochastic variables to be even close to 100% predictable. And for many/most, overcoming and successfully dealing with and using that is the fun!

Finally, to underscore the above, whether one paints with a brush or a spray-can, the bristles and droplet dispersal are random and represent the ESSENTIAL randomness of "the real world" .... including the sport and art of soaring which make it so enjoyable for most adherents. If one wants to always and definitely go and/or stay up there are motors and slopes with steady winds.

" and now back to our regularly scheduled program .... "


Lee
Sep 08, 2015, 05:41 AM
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czorzella's Avatar
Phil, what radio are you using?

Carlos
Sep 08, 2015, 05:59 AM
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Thread OP

and my point is...


guys: just to remind you of the reason for this thread. post 1 says:
am trying to learn from you guys who use a vario what is your experience on detecting thermals; what shapes have you detected;
their size, strenght, how they evolve as they rise, how they change their shape.
recently am beginning to use 1 and am trying to learn more about them. i consider that with a vario we have the way to learn more based on hard data. there are so many theories about them that i think this is the only way to clarify that.

any input based on your experience is welcome.
please comments polite, positive and to the point.

guys who use a vario.

please!


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