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Jun 27, 2015, 01:20 PM
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Mini-Review

Bayangtoys X7 vs JJRC/Eachine H8 Mini


The H8 Mini is currrently pretty "hot", with low price, and decent flight performance being some key selling points. The X7 seems less well known, but is about the same size. The current versions of both quads can even bind to the same transmitter. So how do these compare head to head? I'll try to compare the two in a "head to head-review".


Disclaimer: I don't get paid, or in any other way make money with reviews like these. Product specifications and quality may vary at the manufacturer's discretion, and are beyond my influence. I cannot guarantuee you will get a product that performs exactly the same as seen and described in this review. There is always room for a general discussion on the reviewed item, but no affiliate links!






(On the left the Bayangtoys X7, on the right the H8 Mini)


As there are more topics on both quads, I've tried to list each and every one at the bottom of this posting, for easy reference



First Impressions:


Let's start with some pictures and specs:


Bayangtoys X7



Available for around 20 USD here: http://www.gearbest.com/rc-quadcopters/pp_164625.html


The X7 looks pretty amazing, with a sleek center part, and besides this vibrant metallic red, is available in 4 other colors:



Because on all versions, the bottom half of the frame is still white, selecting other colors than full white, will have less impact on night flying capabilities.

Measuring the distance diagonally from one motor to the other, we get 77 mm. When looking over the same diagonal and measure the prop guards, you get 132 mm. Weight, with battery, and prop guards, is 20 gram, I got 20.09 to be precise. Props are the same as on the X9, being 50 mm long.

The box for this quad is big, at first I thought they had sent me the wrong one. The reason for this big box, are that the transmitter is not placed under the quad, like with the X9, so it all fits in a more or less square box, but the TX sits next to the quad, making the box about twice the length of the X9 one. For those not familiar with the Bayangtoys X-series quads, here's an example of what the TX looks like:




Inside the box we also find a small screwdriver, 4 spare props, a USB charger, and a manual.

One thing that is quite obvious when unpacking, is that the X7 has the prop guards screwed on, so these can easily be removed, if desired, or placed back. The same can't be said for the battery, as unlike most quads of this size, it's not instantly removable, but soldered onto the board.




To be able to charge the quad, there is a charge socket on the rear, as well as a power switch.



This kinda forces you to get multiple quads, so you can fly for a longer time than just a single battery.


As most small quads, it has a 6 axis gyro, making it very stable, and easy to pick up for beginners. The transmitter offers the selection of 3 different control rates, selected by using the left shoulder button.




The left shoulder button controls the auto-flip feature, press once to activate, and the move the "cyclic" stick in the direction you want the quad to flip in. The transmitter needs 4 AAA batteries to operate.



JJRC/Eachine H8 Mini


This quad comes under two different brand names. Banggood has it listed under the Eachine brand (http://www.banggood.com/Eachine-H8-M...-p-975808.html), while Gearbest has the JJRC version ( http://www.gearbest.com/rc-quadcopters/pp_186259.html ). Generally the BG version is a little under 15 USD, while Gearbest sells it for a little over 15 USD, but still cheaper than the X7. Unlike the X7, things are pretty "black and white" with the H8 Mini, quite literally, as this quad is only available in white, or black.






Since the black one is fully black, both frame halves, it will likely be less suitable for night flying. Better off getting the white one, in that case.

Dimensions and weight are pretty similar to the X7, distance between motors, when measured over the diagonal, is also 77 mm, while the prop guards, though shaped differently, are also 132 mm apart. Props are different, it uses smaller onse than the X7, measuring only 45 mm.

Oddly enought, the 4 props are the same color though, which probably won't help with orientation. The prop guards are part of the frame, so the only way to remove these are by cutting. One big plus though is that the battery is removable.




Even then, it's still smart to get at least two quads, so one can cool down when the other battery is being flown, but apart from the extra quad, all you would need are extra batteries, to fly for a longer time.


The box is small, and contains the transmitter, a small screwdriver, a USB charger, only 2 spare props, and some self adhesive foam pads, to mount under the motor pods. The stock transmitter has only 2 rates, where the lowest rate may already be too much for a beginner quad pilot, despite the 6 axis gyro stabilisation. Also, it's smaller than the one from the X7, and may not be very comfortable to use for every pilot.




As you can see it has no shoulder buttons, and for instance auto-flips are started by pressing down on the right stick. The transmitter needs only 3 AAA cells, so it may be cheaper to operate than the X7, but on the other hand, you often buy AAA cells in quantaties of 4, 8, etc. , so 3 is an pretty odd number then. The transmitter color matches the heli, when you get a white one, the TX will be white too.


With both quads introduced, it's time for some action...



Let's take to the air!


First, the X7, it hovers well, and has good yaw, though not as fast as for instance the X9. Motor and prop noise are about average for a quad this size, you're not likely to get complaints when buzzing around, making sweeping low turns, etc. After making a few passes and figure 8s, it's clear this quad is a nice flyer. Speed is ok, but what strikes me most is how smooth and precise the controls are. Not just the direction controls, but also throttle feels smooth and responsive, making it easier than the average quad to stay at same altitude. Flips are ok, I've seen tighter ones on other quads, but also less pretty ones. Like the X9, if moving forward, a flip can be triggered, and this results in a stunt that looks a bit like a loop. It doesn't keep momentum after the loop as well as the X9, that sometimes even seems to gain speed when coming down from the "loop," but it also doesn't come to full stop, like the JJ1000 for instance.

Speaking of the JJ1000, this X7 feels a lot like it when it comes to smoothness, but also feels lighter. After about 5 minutes, the leds will start to flash, indicating LVC is close, but still offers enough time to land the quad. Battery is down to around 3.70 volts afterwards, so the LVC is set correctly. The charger usually puts back about 150 mAh after such a flight, so the battery is not overrated, and really has 150 mAh usable capacity.

The smooth controls make it a very good indoor flyer, it can be flown very precisely, with crawling speeds, or tight banked turns, it feels very proportional, reminds me of the Blade Nano QX. This one comes close in control refinement.

The X7 can handle some breeze, and make headway into the wind, but it does get affected by gusts. Either with a little wobble, or some bobbing if moving at speed. Maybe it has something to do with the prop guards, or the props, which are bigger than usual for a quad this size. Speaking of those prop guards, since this quad has no clear rear or back, except from the switch and charge socket, at a distance it is hard to see orientation, also because the white prop guards all around, can be mistaken for the white of the front props. Since the yaw isn't overly sensitive, you can usually still judge direction by where it is heading, but it might be worth considering adding some color to the rear prop guards, to make these stand out better compared to the front ones.

Here is some footage of flying with the X7:

(2 min 33 sec)



The crash at the end was due to missing the flashing leds in the strong sunlight. Normally I stand about where the streetlight is, and during a low pass, I can still see the leds, and if these are flashing. But because I was shooting a vid, I took some steps back, to avoid blocking the view on the quad.



So, will the H8 Mini fly very similar, considering the similarities between the two? Well, there are some clear differences. First, it seems to be more quiet, Yaw rate has been discussed on other topics as well (see below for a list) and is already close to being too fast on low rates. On high rates, it's even faster, and crosses the border between twitchy and annoying, I think. It is possible to fly a smooth turn on the highest setting, but just a fraction more rudder, and the quad makes a 180, or more. Turns will often more look like a handbrake turn. Most of the times I fly on low rates, or actually, medium, as I prefer to use the X7 transmitter for the H8 Mini.

The quad has good speed, and does a nice acceleration jump if you punch the throttle in FFF. It's high yaw rate makes it a good candidate for making funnels. Controls are precise enough for precision landings, but don't feel as smooth as the X7. Like the Juncheng 3015-2, this one demands to go as fast as it possibly can.

Flips are a bit weird with this one. It can make a fast one, but first loses altitude, then shoots up a little. Trying to do a "loop-flip", like the X7 can, and the X9 even better, will result in a weird wobbly stop, or in one case even resulted in the H8 flipping continuously, right into the ground. Better to keep these stunt to the X7/X9 series.

Flight times are also a little over 5 minutes, with clear LVC warning, at least with the white one. If you have the black version, it will be harder to spot. Speaking of visibility, the combination of good speed, and fast yaw, and having 4 identically colored props, is not a good one. Apart from the battery wire sticking out at the rear, there is no way of telling orientation when in a hover, and at a distance. It is possible to fix this, but it's still odd that they took the extra effort to make the transmitter in 2 colors, but couldn't do the same for the tiny props.

After LVC is triggered, the battery sits close to 3.70 volts resting voltage, so the protection is set correctly. After a flight like that, the charger puts back between 170 and 175 mAh, indicating the H8 Mini's battery is bigger, and has more "headroom" in capacity.

I've also flown the H8 Mini in a gusty breeze, and it does quite well. Some small altitude "jumps" when it hits a gust, but overall it cuts nicely into the wind. The fast yaw is pretty convenient here, when the quad is going downwind, you can quickly make a "180" to get the nose back into the wind.

Here's a short vid showing a landing on a streetlight with the H8 Mini:

(0 min 34 sec)



Btw, an increasing number of people have reported binding issues, and the white one I have also tends to take a few attempts regularly, before it connects to the TX. For me, it seems to help to put down the quad with the nose facing me, instead of like normally, putting it down with the rear end facing me. But this doesn't work all the time, it can still take some attempts, and some people can not get it to bind at all.




Final Conclusion



So 2 pretty indentical size quads, able to bind to the same transmitter, and yet quite different. Here's what I felt are the pros and cons of each one.


Bayangtoys X7

Pros:

- great looks, much variety in colors
- very smooth and precise flyer
- good transmitter for a cheap quad
- flight time over 5 minutes
- good LVC warning
- all color versions suitable for night flying, due to white frame bottom


Cons:


- built-in battery
- yaw may not be fast enough for everyone
- box excessively big for a quad this size
- prop guards front and back are same size, at a distance the rear prop guards can be mistaken for the white front props



So what are the stronger and weaker points of the H8 Mini?


Pros:

- good speed and agility
- flight times over 5 minutes
- good LVC warning
- very capable in a breeze
- battery can be easily swapped
- very cheap


Cons:

- yaw rate too fast on high setting
- transmitter is not very comfortable to use
- no real beginner rate
- only white version is suitable as night flyer
- same color props front and rear, making orientation harder
- only 2 spare props


So, in stock form, the X7 is a more polished quad, with smooth control, good speed, it has a really good feel when in the air. Yaw and banking angles are well tuned to each other. It's quite easy to keep track of it in the air, and keeping a close eye on the quads orientation.

The H8 Mini has some rough edges, most notably, as mentioned more often here and elsewhere, the twitchy yaw rate. When flying on low setting, it would have been nice to have the high rate's banking angles, combined with the low rate's yaw setting. That would have made for a better balance between controls. A more comfortable to use transmitter would have been nice too, as well as different colored props front and rear, and more spare props. Also, the binding issues could cause a problem.

Looking at both quads, right from the box, the X7 wins, due to the better balance between yaw and banking angles, and providing a more complete "package" with the better transmitter. But when pairing the H8 Mini with the Bayangtoys transmitter (or modding the stock, or Bayangtoys transmitter for more controllable yaw), and adding some color to the front props, it becomes much nicer to fly, and edges close to the X7. It may even be surpassing it in areas like handling a breeze, and considering that it costs about the same RTF as a BnF of, like the JJ1000 for instance, is also a strong selling point.



Update 1 august 2015:

I did some range testing, and with the Bayangtoys transmitter, both quads can get at least 50 metres away, without any dropout or glitches. I didn't test much with the stock H8 transmitter, as I find it too small to comfortable use it, but during one flight of our daughter, the quad went MIA, and was nowhere to be found. However, it turned out that it had landed halfway the block, on the roof of a shed, and the neighbours noticed it was up there, because the motors were buzzing, while I was intermittently blipping the throttle, hoping to hear the lost quad.

Some more good news, the first build with support for Deviation TX has been put together. So both quads can be flown with the Devo transmitter series. More info can be found in the third message in this thread.



Update 11 september 2015:


There has been a design change on the H8 Mini. The frame halves are now held together with 12 screws, instead of 8. The 4 extra screws are added right on the inside of the motor pods. The benefit seems that there are less vibrations, and the quad's become more silent.

Another change is the battery, it's a little smaller, and considerably lighter, as the "old" batteries are about 5.6 grams, and the newer ones only 5.2 grams. And though I need to do a little more testing, the capacity seems to have decreased a little. The older batteries could easily be discharged over the rated 150 mAh and still not drop too far, the first new one I tested would just about barely get to 150 mAh rating. I expect this to cause a loss of half a minute of flight time. Here are both batteries side by side:




Third change, still needing full confirmation, is that range has been reduced. As can be seen in the "Modifications" section, a recently purchased H8 Mini had barely 30 metres of range. I thought this to be a fluke, and moving the antenna to outside the body cured things, but after someone made me attentive, in another H8 Mini thread, that the newer quads had 12 screws, I noticed my H8 Mini with lower range also has 12 screws. Coincidence, or another silent "upgrade"? I hope to find out soon, as I used a coupon to get another one of these, and already seen it's also a new series H8 Mini, with the extra screws. To be continued...



Update 21 september 2015:

Seems like the limited range is indeed an issue of all recently made H8 Mini. My second recent purchased one also has 12 screws, and range around 25 metres. After modding the antenna on the quad, this was about doubled. The extra screws do help keep vibrations down, and so far all my "12 screw quads" are silent enough right from the box, but the limited range is a big downer, forcing you to take a perfectly working quad apart, just because someone decided to change the receiver board a little...

The smaller and lighter battery seems to perform about on par with the 0.4g heavier one, with good punch, good flight times, and about the same amount of mAh put back after it hits LVC.

I am also going to try the 220 mAh batteries from the H8 3D. These are about 5.75 grams, so not really much heavier than the 5.6 grams 150 mAh from the earlier productionn series H8 Mini. The battery fits the battery holder just fine, after removing the self adhesive black foam, that is attached, to make it fit the very spacy battery holder of the H8 3D, which easily accepts a 300 mAh battery.



Links to other threads about these quads:

X7:

- https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=2358917


H8 Mini:

- https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=2408416
- https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=2424974
- https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=2443584 (transmitter mod for better yaw)
- https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=2443298
- https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=2425547
- https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=2418902
- https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=2504503

If there are threads I missed, please let me know, so I can add these to the list
Last edited by SoloProFan; Mar 12, 2016 at 08:38 AM.
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Jun 27, 2015, 01:25 PM
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Modifications



Eachine/JJRC H8 Mini


Prop Colors

As mentioned before, in stock form, the H8 Mini comes with same color props front and rear. I got a suggestion to use a marker to color a pair, for better orientation in the air. I took a Neon Permanent Sharpie, and tested several colors. The neon green, which I wanted to try first because it would match the green print on the black one better, didn't give a nice even coating. Next up was yellow. That works much better, as you can see:






Neon orange might be even better visible, but I don't think it matches the colors of the quad as nicely as yellow does.


Antenna Mod

A familiar method of extending range, which other quads have also had great benefit from. Though the range on the H8 Mini should generally be very good, some quads have been suffering much lower range. My latest purchased H8 Mini got a max range of 30 metres, which is not enough for such a zippy quad. So time for the range mod.






Range has at least doubled with this mod, and is now over 50 metres. The pictures also show what it looks like with props colored with fluor orange Sharpie.



Transmitter

Besides using a Bayangtoys transmitter, because it has better feel and longer sticks, it is also possible to remove the "mushroom-shaped upper part of the stock TX sticks, and replace with something longer, giving more refined control. RCG Member MrSato was so kind to share his picture of his transmitter, with the top part replaced by standoffs.



The ones used on the picture are M2 x 16.


Also, people have been modding the transmitter to reduce the "close to insane" yaw rate. Basically this boils down to adding some resistors in the circuit that contains the rudder potmeter. It does require some soldering and other skills. You can find more info here: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=2443584



Night Flying/Better spotting LVC led flashing:

Though the white version of the H8 Mini is quite suitable for night flying, with the black one it's about impossible. Also, it can be quite tricky to spot the flashing of the leds in time, indicating battery is getting low, and it's time to land. Then someone posted this simple mod:




Using a bit of packing foam, the leds get much better visible. Picture used courtesy of RCG member RCVutt (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=756)


I tried this mod as well, but instead of taking T-shaped parts of foam, I took a similar size rectangle, and tucked that in to form a sort of dome:






Another method I stumbled upon, is using parts of a Q-tip "ear cleaner" cotton swap. Cutting small "tubes" which can be inserted just over the leds, for the same extra lighting effect:






For better hold, best secure the "tubes" with some glue, or just replace if one should come out during flight.


Another take on the making leds better visible theme, using silicone tubing on 5 mm diameter:






Benefits are that it doesn't need glue to stay in place, and the effect is also very good. It might be a little heavier than the foam mod.

(Pictures and idea courtesy of RCG member XFM)



Trouble fitting Eachine H8 replacement batteries as sold by Banggood

The replacement batteries that Banggood sells for the H8 Mini, and can also be purchased in a set of 5 along with the quad, are slightly different from the stock batteries. This may cause some problems with fitting the battery:




The battery can barely get pushed fully forward, and this is due to the wires coming from the side. On the left you see an untouched Eachine battery, on the right one that has a small portion of the fiber tape removed, so the wire runs more to the end of the battery, making it a little more narrow:




Result is that the battery now can be pushed fully home with relative ease:





Bayangtoys X7:



Removable Battery

One of the few shortcomings of the X7 is the fixed battery, no easy swap. When I got my second X7, and it gave me only 4 minutes of flight, with discharge tests revealing the battery as cause, it was time to "dig in" and swap the battery, meanwhile exploring the options to make it removable. First removing the various screws (12 in total) and the quad comes apart:



The battery, bottom right, is the intended replacement battery, a 150 mAh from the H8 Mini. The stock battery is soldered to the board on pads that are nicely clear of other components:



First I had to check if it was possible to enlarge the slot on the rear of the battery "cage" to allow insertion and removal of the battery...





The plastic is pretty flexible, so it tends to bend away when you try to cut it. Make sure you have a sharp knife, and watch you fingers. After that I soldered a battery connector wire on, and cut a little slot in the frame, to let the wires pass to the outside.



I wonder who spotted the thing I almost overlooked, before hooking up the battery. Anyway, 12 screws, 4 prop guards, and 4 props later, it looks like this:



I could only test it indoor, due to rain outside, but it seems to fly just the same, except now the normal 5 minutes of flight time, like my red one.



Different Props

As these can affect flight characteristics, and also flight time, it might be worthwhile to experiment. For instance, will the X7 handle gusts better with H8 Mini props?




Again, big thanks to all people that gave permission to use pics, or in any other way contributed to this thread.

(Reserved for pics and other info)
Last edited by SoloProFan; Oct 02, 2015 at 11:25 AM.
Jun 28, 2015, 07:19 AM
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Deviation TX Support:


I still have to mod my Devo 7E, but everyone that has tried it is very happy with the results of controlling these quads with the Walkera transmitter. For the X7 the advantages are to be getting steeper bank angles, and for the H8 Mini the mayor benefit is being able to adjust the yaw-rate. So it can be flown with high rate and max pitch, but without the crazy "spin like totally mad" yaw. This posting will focus on what firmware builds are used, and sharing model, ini files.

One build that adds Bayangtoys Protocol support, is this Hexfet's Combo Build: http://www.deviationtx.com/downloads...protocol-combo

Suitable for Devo 10 and 7E


(more to come soon)
Last edited by SoloProFan; Sep 11, 2015 at 12:45 AM.
Jun 28, 2015, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloProFan
Added a little part about modifications. Did anyone already try different props on seither quad? Looking forward to your input.
I did try CG023's on the X7. I think someone asked if they are a good replacement. It flies fine but those tight autoflips are gone.
First 26 seconds is CG023 props, last few seconds are the tight autoflips with the stock ones;

X7 CG023 Props. (0 min 35 sec)
Jun 28, 2015, 08:16 AM
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Blade Runner 350's Avatar
Nice informative balanced review Solo.
Jun 28, 2015, 08:35 AM
Registered User
Thanks for a very nice review.
The x7 is a very enjoyable drone. someone mentioned the word "zen" and it is so true.
the smoothest one of all the drones I have and the most enjoyable indoors (other maybe then the blade qx 3D that is a class of its own... )
Jun 29, 2015, 03:03 PM
Registered User
The only drawback for me in X7 is the props, which are very fragile. I usually do not break props, but with X7 I destroyed 4 props during the 10 first flights as I was trying to take everything out of it (in a small room). I really love X7, but I would like to know if there are more durable props for it which do not affect flight performance too much (H8? though someone mentioned that they bend easily).

X7 is really enjoyable to fly indoors as you can just relax and fly; but it is fast enough to have some fun as well, at least if you use some throttle to speed it up. But I still prefer JJ1000 as I'm not running out of props with it and the adrenaline!
Jun 29, 2015, 04:05 PM
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Can others confirm an issue with X7 props? As far as I know these are the same props as the X9 uses, and haven't heard someone complain about these being fragile.

Btw, the black H8 Mini is totally unsuitable as night flyer, unless you do some mods, perhaps.
Latest blog entry: For the love of the hobby!
Jun 29, 2015, 05:24 PM
Registered User
I have two x7, broke only one prop after many flights. never came off after a crash. I can not imagine someone having a regret after getting this incredible drone.
Jun 29, 2015, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloProFan
Can others confirm an issue with X7 props? As far as I know these are the same props as the X9 uses, and haven't heard someone complain about these being fragile.

Btw, the black H8 Mini is totally unsuitable as night flyer, unless you do some mods, perhaps.
I have only had to replace one prop which snapped so far and I give mine hell. The prop guards don't seem to detract from it's flight performance and are best left on unless you think it looks better without them. But after much abuse so far the props haven't been an issue. My X9's sometimes throw props and the X6's use the same fragile ones as the Cheerson CX 10 but the X7's haven't suffered from either issue. Mine are all the older non headless versions though. If there is any difference between them and the current model regarding props I do not know.
Jun 29, 2015, 11:57 PM
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I flew my X9, which uses the same props, through some bushes, as I noticed too late these were in the flight path of my quad when making a fast low pass. It went right through these cutting some leaves, and landed unharmed on the other side of the bushes. Still I am also interested to see other props tested on the X7, for instance H8 ones, or maybe Nano QX type and see if it improves flight performance.
Latest blog entry: For the love of the hobby!
Jun 30, 2015, 12:27 AM
Registered User
Interesting that nobody else has had issues on the props as I haven't removed prop guards and was still breaking all my props while flying indoors a small room. I always cut the throttle before hitting to anything, but I was flying like a crazy trying all kinds of things with it. One of the props was cut into half, while others lost tips of the props. There has been no other damage -- no bent props or anything.
Jul 03, 2015, 08:00 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahagr
Interesting that nobody else has had issues on the props as I haven't removed prop guards and was still breaking all my props while flying indoors a small room. I always cut the throttle before hitting to anything, but I was flying like a crazy trying all kinds of things with it. One of the props was cut into half, while others lost tips of the props. There has been no other damage -- no bent props or anything.
I was flying in very small room - and my H8 often crashes the walls, wardrobe - but the props are still in one piece, and without any damages. Sometimes i pushed too hard the throttle - and drone goes up very fast and sticket to the roof but there was no damages.

Today i testes H8 outdoor - and in moment i flyed it very high - the wind took H8 in left side, on the big tree. Than the quad just crashed branches at about 10 meters above the ground, and felt down, by bouncing to the other branches of tree, to the grass at the end. I was afraid that it has damaged - motors or props but only one prop had little curve to the center and blocked the prop - its just required a little straighten to the previous shape.

So i think the guard props are necessary. H8 is very tough and the small weight will make it hard to damage
Jul 03, 2015, 08:12 AM
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@Avenged90: mahagr was talking about props breaking on the X7. I also never heard of problems with the durability of the H8 props, except some imbalance, causing vibrations in the prop guards.


I tried to capture the X7's flight performance, here's a vid made this morning:

(2 min 33 sec)



The crash at the end was due to missing the flashing leds in the strong sunlight. Normally I stand about where the streetlight is, and during a low pass, I can still see the leds, and if these are flashing. But because I was shooting a vid, I took some steps back, to avoid blocking the view on the quad.
Latest blog entry: For the love of the hobby!
Jul 03, 2015, 08:15 AM
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SeByDocKy's Avatar
Nice thread ... There are many good nano now available ... so very hard to say there is one unique winner... A top 5 would be more realistic


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