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Jul 13, 2019, 09:22 PM
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doug14's Avatar
I didn't know apc made anything but plastic.
I think a 2200 4s might be a bit heavy. my 1600mah graphene feel pretty heavy .
1600mah 75c 4s 215g
2200mah 60c 3s 205g
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Jul 13, 2019, 09:41 PM
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VEGAS_RC_ACE's Avatar
Doug,

Thank you! My 2200 4S 25-50C is actually 218 grams, it's the compact format not the long old brick style. No real weight difference which is great and the 4S power is around 20% more than 3S. A higher C rating always means heavier weight, and less flight time but more burst "punch". I can sacrifice some "punch" for a longer flight with 20% more power available...
Last edited by VEGAS_RC_ACE; Jul 14, 2019 at 10:23 AM.
Jul 14, 2019, 10:21 AM
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I found an APC 11 x 4.7 prop is that what you meant when you said 11 x 4? I'm anxious to hear what you think of the 11 x 4.7 on 4S... Just confirming again that your motor is fine on 4S during that prop test and is not overheating? Thanks again Doug!
Last edited by VEGAS_RC_ACE; Jul 16, 2019 at 03:52 PM.
Jul 16, 2019, 03:55 PM
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VEGAS_RC_ACE's Avatar
Any pilots using 4S with this plane can you please post your favorite prop setup for 3D, if using stock ESC and motor? If you upgraded your ESC and/or motor please let me know what you upgraded them to and your favorite prop for 3D? Thank you very much!
Last edited by VEGAS_RC_ACE; Jul 16, 2019 at 07:21 PM.
Jul 16, 2019, 09:11 PM
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the standard motor will not handle 4s, even at 3s at 45amp you are at the absolute limit.
pushing to 50 amps on 3s the motor shudders like crazy.

for me 3s, Xoar 12x4 was my favourite on the 1250kv motor, but even that killed the standard motor. its just a junky motor, i feel the turnigy SK3 is a good upgrade, its what i put in.

your batteries are heavy, my G7 hyperion 3s 30c packs are 2800mah and weigh in at 186g with bullet connectors.

weight is the enemy of this plane, i managed to pull 100g out of it and it helped.
if i were you, hyperion G8 30c 2400mah 3s packs (149g), and a lighter motor (maybe a sk3-3836, that's what i ran), then just find other ways to cut weight, i changed props, cut holes in the spinner etc etc
you should be able to pull 150g out of this model. then it'll fly pretty well.
Jul 17, 2019, 08:43 AM
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VEGAS_RC_ACE's Avatar
XCSedan,

Thank you very much for the excellent information! All of your ideas are great and thanks for the part info on the battery and motor... However, wouldn't putting a 4S 3D motor (similar in weight to stock but with a lower kv around 600-800?), a 60A ESC (similar to stock weight) and a 4S light battery pack (Hyperion G8 4S 2400 30-60C is 189 grams or a Hyperion G8 4S 1800 30-60C is 156 grams) provide much more thrust per pound which would allow for the added weight of the battery?

I really want to fly this plane with 4S because I dislike most 3S planes. They lack in power, speed and you don't have any power unless wide open. In addition with 3S, you are always in a what can I do to reduce the weight scenario... You also said that the stock motor is not very good (which is the case with all stock motors) so it will need to be changed anyway, so why not get a better 4S 3D motor? I am thinking with 4S, you always have power left over, and you don't have to run it wide-open in maneuvers? In addition, sport flying around is much more fun if you are going faster with 4S. Everyone's thoughts and advice are greatly appreciated and thanks again!
Last edited by VEGAS_RC_ACE; Jul 17, 2019 at 12:00 PM.
Jul 17, 2019, 08:15 PM
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i can tell you right now it won't be under powered on 3s lol
this is a model that if set up right you can get down to sub 1150g pretty easy, at full throttle with the 12x4 prop i was producing over 2000g of thrust.
you are not going to be lacking power.

a scorpion 3014-1220 would be an awesome motor for this with a Xoar 12x4/12x5, (data sheet: http://www.scorpionsystem.com/files/...data_chart.htm )
or, if you're looking for cheap, and SK3-3536 1000kv on a Xoar 12x5 or 12x6 and on a 1200kv version a 12x4
or an Omega 103g motor would be perfect if you could find one of them on a 12x4 or 12x5

also get a good quality prop adapter, i use Precision Aerobatics prop adapters wherever i can, have always had great results with them.

you want to lighten this model up as much as you can.
you are 100% wrong about 3s models not having speed/power, its all about setup.

this model isn't a fast flying sport model either, it's more designed for entry level 3D.

on a 12x4 with the original motor the speed was overkill, i could go unlimited vertical at 2/3 throttle.

the weight isn't reduced so it will have enough power, you want to reduce it to help it fly better.
a model with this wing ideally for 3D you want under 1000g AUW.
Jul 17, 2019, 09:26 PM
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XC Sedan,

Thank you so very much for setting me straight... I will go ahead and get the scorpion you suggested as money isn't an issue if that would be your top sub $100 pick and it's light enough? I was thinking maybe a hacker motor? The Turnigy you suggested is lighter and has more total watts of power and is very inexpensive? I will get both Xoar props 12x4 & 12x5 (in wood or plastic)? I will also get the prop adapter you suggested from PA do you know if there is a specific size needed? In addition, I will get the battery you suggested from Hyperion, the G8 30c 2400mah 3s pack (149g). Thanks so much for setting me straight... I did finish my build today and it was such an easy and great build. Excellent fitment all around and no glue except for the SFGs. However, the main wing spar seemed very short? Did anyone make it longer, or no it's good enough? Thanks again!!
Last edited by VEGAS_RC_ACE; Jul 17, 2019 at 09:54 PM.
Jul 17, 2019, 10:55 PM
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i never managed to snap my wing, the spar was more than ample.

yes the ratings for the scorpion vs the rating for the turnigy, the turnigy can peak at the numbers listed, but its not sustainable. the scorpion you can bet your money will be a smoother running motor.
absolutely you could look at a hacker, hyperion etc, more comes down to what you want to spend, something between the 100-130g mark will be plenty, the 130g motors will be able to swing a bigger prop easier, plus you can transfer this setup to another model once you are competent.
my pick of the bunch would be the omega tbh, I've had great experiences with them (they are no longer in production though i don't think).

definitely get the Xoar PJN props in wood, and grab a few of them, if they catch the grass they split, very very light and fragile but very very good quality, and almost silent.
just remember to balance them.

as for the prop adapter just get the one that suits the shaft size of the motor you pick.

the model will be fine for a while on 3S with a Xoar 12x4 on the standard motor, just don't expect it to last, but you will definitely be able to fly it around plenty.

don't forget with the hyperion packs to reach the 2400mah you will need to charge them to 4.35v (most chargers can do this now under LiHv charge option), you won't regret putting the lighter packs in, it'll make all the difference in this model, the more weight you can take out the better.
Jul 17, 2019, 11:25 PM
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XC Sedan,

Thanks so very much!! I will go for a 130G Hacker, Hyperion, or Scorpion motor as you suggested. I will get the Xoar props 12x4 & 12x5 in wood. The charging was confusing to me... I have a Hyperion 720i net3 charger as well. I can set the target voltage per cell but the highest I can go is 4.28 volts per cell (up from 4.20 default), but not the full 4.35 volts per cell... I guess it's time for a new high voltage lipo charger? What about the stock ESC in this bird? Should I keep it or upgrade that as well as the motor? Thanks again for all of your help XC Sedan, you're the best and are helping other reading but no commenting as well!
Last edited by VEGAS_RC_ACE; Jul 17, 2019 at 11:53 PM.
Jul 18, 2019, 01:19 AM
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well, its up to you on the charger front, its definitely not required the packs will work fine even charged to 4.20v, but to get full capacity you will need a charger that can charge to 4.35v, you can pick up an ISDT T6 for a fairly cheap price, it'll do the job fine, not as well as the hyperion, but they are also about to release a new range of chargers, so maybe wait for the moment, theres no need to go out spending crazy money.
a hacker A30-16 M would do the trick as well i think.

the stock ESC will be enough, i never had problems with it, I've actually kept it as a backup in case i need it in future, i pushed it to 55amp for 20sec WOT runs when prop testing, it didn't break... so no need to replace it.

i wouldn't order any motors until the factory one gives up, for all i know mine could have been a bad one.

i would simply order the props, then balance them, get the hyperion 2400 30c 3s packs and then go from there. fly it and enjoy it, then if the motor gives up, replace it and get a PA prop adapter to go with it.

no point spending money you don't need to, this is an entry level model after all.
when you want to get a more serious model then go for it

oh one other thing, the landing gear is extremely soft. probably one of my pet peeves about the model. i litterally bent it by hitting a divot on a golf course.

you're welcome for the help mate, no sweat at all.
Jul 18, 2019, 08:32 AM
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VEGAS_RC_ACE's Avatar
XC Sedan,

Thanks again for all of the well thought out info... Okay, I will not swap the motor until she dies then. What prop adapter from Precision Aerobatics should I get for use with the stock motor please? Link: https://www.precisionaerobatics.com/...prop-adapters/

Trying to find out the stock prop shaft size:

Stock motor link: http://www.fmsmodel.com/predator-motor-3541-kv1230 (no specs)

Another matching 3541 motor (diff kv) with specs: http://www.fmsmodel.com/fms-predator...541-kv750-4681


I already ordered the upgraded 2" aluminum backed spinner from Great Planes like most mentioned to do in this thread. It fits exceptionally well and is beautiful and much more balanced than the stock plastic spinner. Link: https://www.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...EARCH=GPMQ4762

I ordered the Xoar 12x4 props in wood that you suggested. I did order the G8 2400 3S packs as well, thanks so much as they are 90 grams lighter than the 2200 4S packs that I just returned!

Thanks for the tip on the ISDT T6 charger and you said to wait until their new line comes out. I did some research and it appears their brand new D2 is out: https://www.amazon.com/ISDT-Battery-...gateway&sr=8-2. I won't get it though as it has a lot of negative reviews (read the 1 stars)... I did see some Hitec and other mfg. offerings that were around $100 and did LiHv packs as well (one does two at a time via AC just like the D2) and everyone loves them link: https://www.horizonhobby.com/radios/...ac-dc-hrc44270.

Thanks again for all of your help XC Sedan, I truly appreciate it!
Last edited by VEGAS_RC_ACE; Jul 18, 2019 at 09:19 AM.
Jul 18, 2019, 07:23 PM
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i never used a PA adapter on the standard motor sorry mate, only ordered one when i upgraded it.
if you get a set of vernier calipers you will be able to measure the shaft size though, it's definitely a worth while upgrade.

all in all mate i think you will be very happy with the combo you have for now, just give it a fly once the packs and the props come in and see how you go
don't expect it to be fast, but it will have an insane amount of response with the 12x4, and for 3D it'll be what you want, you can try experimenting with the 12x5 for more speed if that suits your flying style better, just see how the motor goes.

the spinner will make it look trick, never balanced my original one, but i ended up removing it anyway (it cracked when the original motor gave up).

i'd be curious to see what yours weighs with the lighter packs, mine came in around 1170g after i lightened it up, but i had far bigger packs (but a lighter motor).
Jul 18, 2019, 09:45 PM
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VEGAS_RC_ACE's Avatar
XC Sedan,

Thanks again for the follow up... I did a Hyperion firmware update on my charger and it now supports HvLi and I am super happy! I will weigh it for you once the batteries get here next week. I will be testing with the stock 11 x 5.5 plastic apc props vs the 12x4 Xoar which will probably be much better. Do you all fly with the side force generators on or off? I see them being a pain to put the wing in a wing bag or something with them glued on. I wish I could use a magnet or clip but I'm not trying to add weight. Wondering if they are worth while or save the weight? I do love the look of them and assume they help with knife edges etc? Thanks again and happy flying all!
Last edited by VEGAS_RC_ACE; Jul 18, 2019 at 11:12 PM.
Jul 18, 2019, 11:47 PM
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the standard prop provided a pretty lackluster performance for me, but a great idea to test it back to back against the Xoar if for nothing else but knowledge.

i would definitely find away of fixing the SFGs to the wing, you could glue a light ply block in the end of the wing with a blind nut on it? this would make them removable, then just something to stiffen the mounting surface on the SFG itself (some 2mm light ply would suffice).
they make a significant improvement for low speed stability, and a huge difference for knife edge maneuvers.

glad to hear the hyperion charger now supports 4.35v, awesome quality those things are!


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