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Apr 08, 2015, 01:03 PM
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Thread OP
Build Log

Shinto F3B


So at the last Gator F3B contest I managed to damage beyond repair my trusty Fosa. Total pilot error but other than the plane everybody survived so could have been much worse.

Time for a new plane and I got many offers from my friends but decided to try something new in order to learn plane setup all by myself instead of relying on advice from my friends as in the past.

So as a new plane I decided the Shinto would work since I have not seen one flying F3B yet but has shown great F3F results so far including wining La Muela with Pierre Rondel last weekend. It is also built by Vladimir which is one of the few master builders and designed by Stefan Eder/Max Steidle like a few other good planes.

A call to Barry Kennedy of Kennedy Composites and he had not only one but three in stock. I picked the orange model thinking it would be like the Fosa Lift I sold recently but when it arrived a few days later I was really pleased this thing is actually the fluorescent orange like you have seen on some Maxas. Pictures don't really show how bright the color is, it really hurts when looking at it closely so the model should have great visibility.

As sold by Barry, the model comes with servo frames, this one is RDS but there is a LDS version too, very nice wing and tail bags along a fuse sock, complete wiring and there is even stickers to set the wing servo covers. The ballast is very nice too since for the first time I've seen a plane sold with ballast that will bring it to the FAI limit, no need to get tungsten. Total ballast furnished is close to 90 oz, nice.

Here are some pictures
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Apr 08, 2015, 01:13 PM
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Here are the weights in grams as shipped:

Left Stab 27.9
Right Stab 27.5
Fuse 232.3
Joiner 117
Carbon Tail Piece 1.9
Left Wing 579
Right Wing 571
Wiring 36.1
Nose weight 102.3 (supplied, may need more or less)
Clevises/horns/servo covers 11.7
RDS Frames 29.2
RDS Shafts 19
Fuse Servo Tray 9.7

So this plane should finish in the 70 oz range. The fuse and tail are very light while the wings are in the heavy side. At least they seem to be very stiff.

One thing to comment, the finish on this plane is beyond belief. I got used to Baudis which is also very good but to me Jaro Mueller was always at the top. Well, this plane has complicated molding curves, mainly the wing to fuse and tail to fuse joints and they are beautifully molded, not a single flaw and lots of unpainted surface showing all that carboline glory
Apr 08, 2015, 04:35 PM
Also known as simon_t
en_spt's Avatar
I think you will enjoy this model. Most harmonised/sweet model I have flown. I needed less than the supplied nose weight, using a 1600 LiFe battery.

Simon

Ps, there is already a Shinto thread running here.
Apr 08, 2015, 04:44 PM
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Thread OP
Nice to see you here Simon and great flying with your Shinto.

This thread is just a building log so I'll describe the few steps to build it. Not much I know but a chance to share building ideas.

Glauco
Apr 08, 2015, 11:13 PM
J.B.
jdblaske's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glauco
Nice to see you here Simon and great flying with your Shinto.

This thread is just a building log so I'll describe the few steps to build it. Not much I know but a chance to share building ideas.

Glauco
Awesome. I'm looking forward to your build. Stoked to see it at Cal Valley!!

JB
Apr 09, 2015, 09:45 AM
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PDX Slope Pilot's Avatar
Great looking model! Found some interesting background on the Shinto here.
Apr 09, 2015, 12:09 PM
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Thanks for the link, had not seen it before.

Lot's of information on the other airfoils from Max Steidle too.
Apr 13, 2015, 01:20 PM
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So I had time to get a few things done over the weekend.

First I marked the location of the flap RDS pocket and the servo opening so I could figure out the length of the RDS shaft. It comes in two pieces and you glue each other. Not too critical since the servo frame isn't glued yet but just a ballpark of the length. My preferred glue for this is West G flex epoxy.

Once the two parts of the shaft were glued I could attach to the servo frame and power the servo so it would show me the optimal frame position which was pretty close to the 45 servo opening.

Since the frame allows an axial movement, I added a layer of tape to the bottom of the servo to create a little gap once removed and also applied PVA so the servo wasn't a permanent part of the wing

To glue the frame I used MGS epoxy with the slowest hardener I have which is about 24 hours to fully set along Cabosil to thicken a bit the mixture.

After all glued I installed the servo and power all up to see how it moves. As you see in this little movie, it looks fine and the axial movement of the servo is clear. Love how fast these MKS HV servos move at 8 volts.

Shinto RDS Flaps (0 min 21 sec)


Not sure if I need to glue the brass tube to the sub spar, any ideas?

Next step was to figure out the wiring mounting to the fuse. The wiring came with a 4 pin Dean plug instead of the more usual Multiplex plug. At the wing side, it will be loose since that is my preference but the hole that came in the fuse was bigger than the Multiplex plug. So I made a little PCB/G10 insert to hold it.
Apr 13, 2015, 03:30 PM
Registered User
Glauco,

I like the axial movement. It looks like the servo might be twisting a little? As far as the brass tube goes, I think I would only glue it in if I could feel slop in the control surface. If you try and move the surface with the servo on and in different positions, does it feel really solid or can you move it a little bit? If you can move it a little and you can see the servo twisting in the frame, then I would glue in the brass tube. This should alleviate that and tighten things up.

Maybe some Shinto owners will comment.

Tom
Apr 13, 2015, 04:18 PM
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Thread OP
It is really tight now but I'm not sure if it is just because the pocket is tight or not. This is sort of a "problem" with these powerful servos, they will drag through whatever imperfection the pocket may have.

I'll install the ailerons and move them a bit to see what happens before deciding about the brass tube. With both wing servos mounted and powered I'll be able to check the centering, this wing has no fixed trailing edge surface so it is a bit harder to figure out as it is.

Glauco
Apr 14, 2015, 06:43 AM
Soar high and far
glauco,

Use some graphite power in the box and smear some light grade grease between shaft and bush, you will find after a dozen flights all parts will bed in and free up.


I have ordered a second Shinto as well as a electric version - you will love the forgiveness of this model, true delight to fly
Apr 14, 2015, 12:24 PM
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Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elecfit
glauco,

Use some graphite power in the box and smear some light grade grease between shaft and bush, you will find after a dozen flights all parts will bed in and free up.


I have ordered a second Shinto as well as a electric version - you will love the forgiveness of this model, true delight to fly
Great info, thanks.
Apr 15, 2015, 04:53 AM
Soar high and far
Glauco,

I find all (4) control surfaces to return to centre position within half of the thickness of trailing edge at worst, most times centering is 100% .

This shows especially during speed course, model tracks better then a bullet ( if possible ) .

Also when setting up, don't be afraid to move tow hook to aft rear position, i have my Shinto " rotating " out of my hand near close as my Maxa 4 pro!
Apr 20, 2015, 01:10 PM
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Thread OP
Got to work a little more this past weekend.

After attempting to glue one of the RDS shaft brass tube to the sub spar, I found out the flap and aileron slop came from the RDS coupling not fitting the servo spline nice and snug.
To solve it, the first thing was to find a way to secure the little brass screw to the servo. I dremeled a flat head and along some thread locker was able to secure it well to the servo.
Then copied Tom Kiesling's method using some oil on the servo spline to help keep the glue from sticking to it then using rubberized CA on the coupler.
This combined to a tight set screw took all the slopness, now every surface is incredibly tight but it still seems to move freely and center well. Here is a video of the surfaces moving. Beware this is just a sample program and not the actual final throws.

Shinto Wing Servos (0 min 26 sec)


Started working on the fuse by using a mock up arrangement for servos, battery and receiver. Reduced the nose weight by 40 grams, it weighs 62 g now and that will give me a estimated CG of 96 mm. I'll start flying at 90 mm with some loose weight and then remove it as needed. The nose weight won't be permanently installed for the first flights so can adjust latter.

Moved the servo tray as forward as possible but still allowing the battery to be removed. Using my favorite glue for this, Goop. It is a pain to apply but once set it will be there forever.

Close to getting it done.
Apr 22, 2015, 06:45 AM
Soar high and far
Glauco,

I used good old usa JB weld to really help bond spline to the coupling - I had a similar experience too. Problem solved !


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