Thread Tools
Nov 14, 2015, 08:00 AM
better is enemy of good enough
rickp's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex_007
Hello all

Congrat's for the woks you made. Some one would like to make a 250 size quad please?
I thinks it will please a lot of people.
Alex,

Not familiar at all with multi-rotors, so need a bit more info here please.
What does "250 size" actually mean, and can you give me links to a couple of popular examples?

Thanks, rick p
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Nov 14, 2015, 08:21 AM
better is enemy of good enough
rickp's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunHed
Yes. It is possible to make mix directly in the Phoneix Builder, so as in Phoenix itself. Yo can check it in the "Kridlo" variant of your Neptune model, or in my raptor.

I have attached the sample project file with elevon setup.
There is the only one control surface positioned on the middle wing part with input set to "Left Aileron"
Then in section "Model->Attributes->Control->Aileron->Mix" I set "Input" to left elevator and "Amount %" to 50% in this example.
GunHed,

Hey thanks - tried that on the existing version and it worked like a champ!
Now that you've shown me how to do this I'll release a new version with movable control surfaces.

That's one of the great things about this hobby - always learning something new.

Thanks again ! rick p
Nov 14, 2015, 10:21 PM
Registered User
yorkiepap's Avatar
Hey Rick,
I tried the Neptune V25 & there is virtually very little elevator movement. I can apply full UP ELEV & the Neppy hardly climbs. Ok...I'll wait for the next update.

Denny
Nov 14, 2015, 10:55 PM
better is enemy of good enough
rickp's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiepap
Hey Rick,
I tried the Neptune V25 & there is virtually very little elevator movement. I can apply full UP ELEV & the Neppy hardly climbs. Ok...I'll wait for the next update.

Denny
Thanks for the feedback Denny.
Try this update - it uses GunHed's elevon technique and flies fine for me in v5.0.w.

rick p
Last edited by rickp; Nov 14, 2015 at 11:16 PM.
Nov 15, 2015, 10:04 AM
better is enemy of good enough
rickp's Avatar
Thread OP

A6 Intruder


Spent some time at Whidbey Island NAS this summer and was able to get up close to a couple of A6 static displays.
Knew it was an interesting airplane, and visiting Whidbey convinced me to take a shot at this model.
My most difficult project to date because of the lack of detailed plans and the complex fuselage.
And while I'm not a big fan of jet models, this one is special to me.
Great fun shooting approaches as it looks pretty realistic.

Enjoy, rick p

PS: You may install this model in either the Phoenix Test or Normal Menus.
To install it in Phoenix Test Menus, unzip the non-PKG file to your PhoenixBuilder\Test\Models directory.
To install it in Normal Phoenix Menus, unzip and install the PKG file as a Phoenix update.
Update instructions: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zj2o7vx9b0...0File.pdf?dl=0

Simulator 2015 11 15 04 55 23 21 (1 min 8 sec)
Last edited by rickp; Aug 15, 2019 at 06:39 PM.
Nov 15, 2015, 09:27 PM
Registered User
yorkiepap's Avatar
Hey Rick,
Well, I still can't get the Neppy to fly correctly. I tried both wing types on my Tx(Normal & Elevon) & still can't get enough elevator & aileron. I also noticed that the size is really not near the size of the model... 1230mm(48.3") W/S & 710g weight. It's also out of proportion with increasing the scale size on the sim. Looks like this model isn't practical to the sim parameters.

Denny
Nov 16, 2015, 08:35 AM
better is enemy of good enough
rickp's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiepap
Hey Rick,
Well, I still can't get the Neppy to fly correctly. I tried both wing types on my Tx(Normal & Elevon) & still can't get enough elevator & aileron. I also noticed that the size is really not near the size of the model... 1230mm(48.3") W/S & 710g weight. It's also out of proportion with increasing the scale size on the sim. Looks like this model isn't practical to the sim parameters.

Denny
That's too bad as this is a fun model and I know you like it if it worked for you.
Wonder if what you're seeing is a 5.5 beta artifact as my 5.0 throws are fine.
Attached Phoenix Builder screen shots show the W/S at 1240 mm (2 x length) and weight at 660 g - pretty close.
Maybe GunHed will have some ideas.

rick p
Nov 18, 2015, 02:32 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickp
Alex,

Not familiar at all with multi-rotors, so need a bit more info here please.
What does "250 size" actually mean, and can you give me links to a couple of popular examples?

Thanks, rick p
+ 1 vote for "250 size FPV racer"

I think PhoenixRC ignoring "FPV racer quadrocopters" models loosing potential customers of whole multi-rotors comunity. There are few new simulator programs which try to fit for market need: FPV Freerider (https://fpv-freerider.itch.io/fpv-freerider) and LiffOff game (http://www.liftoff-game.com/)
PhoenixRC has 99% of functionatily ready in current version, what is missing is FPV racer model and 3D sites whehere on-board camera functionality could be used for flying.

1. 250 size FPV racer model
I think the most used frame for 250 FPV racer is ZMR250 V2 Carbon Fiber Frame Kit. There are lots of variants, clones, but most of racers are built on frame with that shape.
Then 2204 motors - it could be from different producers for example Lumiere, DYS, SunnySky, Emax or Multistar Multistar Elite 2204-2300KV.
Then 6" props: for example Gemfan Propeller 6x4.5.
Then 4S 1400mAh-1500mAh battery for example MultiStar Race Spec 4S 1400mAh.
Also there is lots of other small electronics (Flight controller, ESCs, FPV camera, FPV transmitter). When you search ZMR250 in google, then it founds hundreds of photos with final build...
In my opinion it is not important how FPV racer model will looks like - because regardles how clean build you try to - it will looks ugly

2. New sites for multi-rotor racing
I thing 2 new 3D sites would be enough:
- 3D site with racing track with some Flags and FPV Racing Air Gates
- 3D site with park with some threes thru which it would be possible to fly thru - also with abandoned building with windows without glass and open doors to fly thru

Currently new release PhoenixRC 5.5 is going to be released and multi-rotor race support could be good selling point. But that is my opinion - Phoenix could have different....
Nov 18, 2015, 03:57 AM
Registered User
GunHed's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickp
That's too bad as this is a fun model and I know you like it if it worked for you.
Wonder if what you're seeing is a 5.5 beta artifact as my 5.0 throws are fine.
Attached Phoenix Builder screen shots show the W/S at 1240 mm (2 x length) and weight at 660 g - pretty close.
Maybe GunHed will have some ideas.

rick p
Hello Rick.

As I saw on your screenshots, you have set the wingspan to the right size, but you did not set the size parameter on the base screen. See the size parameter, just above the weight parameter on the first screen shot you have posted.

About the difference between the versions 5.0 and 5.5 of Phoenix. It looks like the authority of the elevator changed quite drasticaly between this versions. If in the 5.0
elevator movement was just enough for fine elevator authority, it is realy not enough in the 5.5 version. It looks like the 5.5 has realy changed physics model, but anyway, I like the new physics model better, even if I do not think it is finished yet. In the new model moving surface aerodynamics changed, so as their effect. Also it looks for me that position of COG has bigger impact on the model's behavior.

To 3D folks - for me it looks like 3D behavior is a little better in 5.5 then it was in 5.0. :-D
Nov 18, 2015, 10:17 AM
better is enemy of good enough
rickp's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunHed
Hello Rick.

As I saw on your screenshots, you have set the wingspan to the right size, but you did not set the size parameter on the base screen. See the size parameter, just above the weight parameter on the first screen shot you have posted.
.......
Ah yes, the size parameter.
The way it seems to work is that the size parameter is essentially a scale factor.

I've been building my recent models with a wingspan of 20 Builder units then setting the wing length parameter to match the visual size.
That typically does not give the desired scale wingspan, so then I use the model size parameter to scale the wing span- everything else scales with it.
Neptune v3.2 was built like this with an initial wing length of 1.25 m (wing span of 1.5 m) and a model size of 1.0.
Then I changed the model size to 0.495 to scale the wing length to 0.61875 m (wing span of 1.2375 m).

That process is based on Phoenix tech support advice and seems to work for me.
You have a good perspective on all this, GunHed, so please let me know if you see it differently.

Regards, rick p
Nov 18, 2015, 10:18 AM
better is enemy of good enough
rickp's Avatar
Thread OP

250 size FPV


Great input, Dzino - I'll take a look at it. rick p
Nov 19, 2015, 07:05 AM
Foam Rules, Gravity Sucks
Bravedan's Avatar
Hi All,

Firstly, it is SO good to see user created models coming out finally, and well done to all for trying!

However, a few words of caution.

I have two computers side by side, one on 5.0w, the other on 5.5d.

Quite a few models here (but by no means all) run OK in 5.0w but NOT in 5.5d.

For example, the F6F models are uncontrollable in 5.5, as right from load they oscillate/flutter furiously at the tail and crash. They work OK in 5.0.

For example 2, the Hacker Skyfighter has some instability/tuning issues in 5.0, but is absolutely unflyable in 5.5, where the elevator is trimmed down (or programmed reflex does not work) and full up ele fails to get the plane climbing away, it just flies into the ground.

They say the physics have changed, they are not kidding!!!
Nov 19, 2015, 07:58 AM
Registered User
limmacslim's Avatar
Bravedan, im not personally a fan of the new physics just yet. I think some things still need refining but guess that's why its still a beta.

Lucky you for having a second PC to test with! I need to figure out a way of installing both on the same machine.
My guess is things are still liable to change in future updates so I might wait for the physics to be finalised before making stuff based on the beta physics.

With the models that oscillate in 5.5, try reducing wash to 100% if its not already (found in model/edit, model/fine tuning).

Oh & hello from rainy canning town
Nov 19, 2015, 08:26 AM
Registered User
limmacslim's Avatar
I posted these models in the phoenix 5 thread so I should really add them to the collection here too.

I change/update things quite a lot but also sometimes take my sweet time about it so don't usually end up posting much stuff here. I will possibly update the extra & G2 in the future.

These were made & tested with V5.0w, I only briefly tested them with v5.5.
As mentioned above, reduce wash to 100% in V5.5 (for the deltoid & extra).
Nov 19, 2015, 08:28 AM
better is enemy of good enough
rickp's Avatar
Thread OP

5.5 Tuning


I'm hesitant to switch over to 5.5 beta as I have only one computer.

But given all the issues folks are having, I'll test and re-post all my models once 5.5 is released.

Thanks, rick p


Quick Reply
Message:

Thread Tools