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Mar 24, 2015, 10:08 AM
Australian Supplier
buzzhobbies's Avatar
Thread OP
New Product

Zippa 250 Mini Atail Frame


New frame from Buzz Hobbies

Mini Atail design
http://buzzhobbies.com.au/index.php?...product_id=659


Zippa 250 Trailer (2 min 1 sec)


Features:
Wooden arms
Carbon fiber main plate and link plate
Built in ‘weak link' crash protection
Light weight
Easy line of sight orientation
“A” tail for fast yaw response

How is it different?
The main difference between this and other carbon frames of this size is that the arms are not held in a full double sandwich. They’re only attached on one face, and even then they’re only held on with cable ties.
This is a really important design feature which means that you can move the arm in any direction (up, down, in, out, left, right) in a crash, and the worst thing that happens is that the cable ties break.

So why the wooden arms?
Well, we tried carbon fiber arms, and they broke. We used several different methods of construction, and every single one of them eventually broke in a hard enough crash. Our original prototypes were wooden and didn't break, so we started making arms out of Tasmanian Oak and haven’t looked back since.

“A” tail?
Yes, because it gives you really good yaw response, with easier packaging than a V tail.

Notes from the designer:
I had been building larger A tails for a while, and wanted to try out a mini version so ended up designing the Zippa.
It turned out so well that I thought that everyone should have the chance to own one of these. They are just so much fun to fly, and you are never seriously worried about crashing it. I have pummelled this thing into the ground many times, and it just breaks cable ties which means that I’m usually back in the air within 5 minutes.
This also means that I’m not scared to try silly stuff, which is the best way for me to learn and progress.



What you get in the kit:

Carbon fiber main plate
Carbon fiber brace plate
Wooden arms (nature's carbon fiber) milled and stained black
HQ aluminium standoffs for the front
Power distribution board and xt60 connector
Bolts and Zip ties to connect with either bolts or zip ties
Flight controller standoff combination to suit most setups
Fpv top plate - carbon fiber
Acro protector plate - carbon fiber
Scorpion lock strap - Limited to our first important supporters

We will share our sample Pid's with you and custom motor mix if you choose similar components to what we recommend.

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Pictures depict a sample build - kit is for frame only

Just paste into the cli tab of cleanflight
the dump will probably not match your exact build but gives you a good atail motor mix and a starting point - don't forget to type save before you leave the cli tab.

Clean Flight cli dump file naze cleanflight 172 dump...

Quad X layout

motor mix part -

# mixer
mixer CUSTOM
cmix 1 1.000 0.000 1.000 -1.000
cmix 2 1.000 -0.710 -0.710 0.210
cmix 3 1.000 0.000 1.000 1.000
cmix 4 1.000 0.710 -0.710 -0.210
cmix 5 0 0 0 0

Big Thanks to Nebbian for all the design work and the tuning and motor mix.
Last edited by buzzhobbies; Apr 02, 2015 at 07:20 AM.
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Mar 24, 2015, 10:08 AM
Australian Supplier
buzzhobbies's Avatar
Thread OP
They say a picture is worth a thousand words so in lou of a 1000 word instruction manual here are some build pictures to keep you out of trouble.
the proper manual will be available soon
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Last edited by buzzhobbies; Mar 31, 2015 at 09:25 AM.
Mar 24, 2015, 10:09 AM
Australian Supplier
buzzhobbies's Avatar
Thread OP
Reserved for pictures of client's builds
Mar 24, 2015, 10:24 AM
Zippa Flippa
nebbian's Avatar
Build video:

Zippa Build Video (50 min 13 sec)
Last edited by nebbian; Apr 03, 2015 at 07:32 PM.
Mar 24, 2015, 10:30 AM
Zippa Flippa
nebbian's Avatar
Tuning


Motor order

It is important that you use the correct motor order when building your Zippa, as the custom mix below depends on motor 1 being the rear left, and motor 3 being the rear right. This is opposite to the 'normal' X quad layout.

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Custom Mix

One of the most important parts of tuning an A tail is the custom mix. Without it, when you yaw quickly, the craft will roll as well as yawing. This is due to the angle of the rear motors, and the fact that they are not on the centreline of the craft. If you are using a different controller, then it is vital that you mix in 20% of the full yaw value to the front motors, in such a way that when the rear left motor is speeding up with a yaw value, then the front right will speed up by 20% of that value as well. The same goes for the rear right / front left combination.

When you get it right, a fast yaw command will result in a very flat quad, with no yaw/roll coupling visible at all.

Starting tune for Naze32 / Cleanflight
Here is a very tame starting tune, which should get you flying no matter what the performance of your ESCs are like. Note that this is intentionally detuned to try to cope with the widest variety of ESCs that you are likely to try to use. If you are using high quality ESCs with active braking, then you will be able to obtain much better performance by tweaking these settings (lower D by a lot, and raise yaw P and I values).

Code:
FEATURE FAILSAFE
FEATURE MOTOR_STOP


mixer CUSTOM
mmix 0 0.950 0.000 1.000 1.000
mmix 1 1.000 -0.710 -0.710 0.200
mmix 2 0.950 0.000 1.000 -1.000
mmix 3 1.000 0.710 -0.710 -0.200
mmix 4 0 0 0 0


set looptime = 2000

set pid_controller = 3
set p_pitch = 30
set i_pitch = 20
set d_pitch = 90
set p_roll = 30
set i_roll = 20
set d_roll = 100
set p_yaw = 41
set i_yaw = 3
set d_yaw = 0

set rc_rate = 90
set rc_expo = 20
set thr_mid = 50
set thr_expo = 0
set roll_rate = 60
set pitch_rate = 60
set yaw_rate = 45
Edit, updated CMix to MMix for later versions of Cleanflight. Thanks to Rebem for the info.
Last edited by nebbian; Jan 07, 2016 at 03:13 AM.
Mar 24, 2015, 06:00 PM
Registered User
very nice design, seems very efficient
Mar 24, 2015, 07:04 PM
Zippa Flippa
nebbian's Avatar
Thanks Waterbound. It does turn out to be pretty efficient, we're getting 10-12 minute flying time out of a 3S 1300 mAh battery. This is for normal cruising around. For really hard acro this drops to 6-8 minutes.
Mar 24, 2015, 07:10 PM
z33
z33
Registered User
Interesting kit. Are those special purpose zip ties?

Would there be oscillations in the looms with zip ties?

Thanks.
Mar 24, 2015, 07:21 PM
Zippa Flippa
nebbian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by z33
Interesting kit. Are those special purpose zip ties?

Would there be oscillations in the looms with zip ties?
Nope they're normal everyday 2.5mm zip ties, used to hold the world together

The arms are held on really tightly by them, there is no flex in the zip tie joint at all.

During flight there's no noticeable flex, looseness, oscillation, or difficulty tuning. It's a system that works well on this size of quad.

I've tried this method on larger (500 size) quads, and while it works, the arms do have a tendency to oscillate a bit. I think this is to do with the thickness of the arms and the slower rotation speed of the props.

On the Zippa (which is much smaller), it all appears to be quite rigid.
Mar 25, 2015, 02:12 AM
Arctic
Testing has begun on the Zippa 👍😎

Cheers
BoP
Mar 25, 2015, 02:47 AM
Registered User
Love it, going to order one now. I'd much rather support an Aussie design/made quad than a cheap Chinese knockoff.

Buzz, what fpv gear do you have to suit it? I need vtx and fpv cam. Ive got some Multistar 1704 motors on hand, would they be suitable?
Last edited by ixlix; Mar 25, 2015 at 03:04 AM.
Mar 25, 2015, 06:43 AM
thank god I'm an atheist
great design and work guys! love the innovations - congratulations

i'll be making a purchase !
Mar 25, 2015, 09:39 AM
Australian Supplier
buzzhobbies's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixlix
Love it, going to order one now. I'd much rather support an Aussie design/made quad than a cheap Chinese knockoff.

Buzz, what fpv gear do you have to suit it? I need vtx and fpv cam. Ive got some Multistar 1704 motors on hand, would they be suitable?
Cheers,
The camera I use is the Sony 600tvl in case
http://buzzhobbies.com.au/index.php?...product_id=597

Nice and light and can angle up as this frame is very quick
The motors should be ok if you can get a zip tie in the base of the motor.
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Sorry no suitable vtx in at the moment, the 25mw one from hk works
Mar 25, 2015, 09:30 PM
Registered User
Might be a bit tight!

But ordered anyway. I'm sure I can fashion something to work.
Last edited by ixlix; Mar 27, 2015 at 11:39 PM.
Mar 27, 2015, 06:40 AM
Registered User
Found some "sub miniature" 1.6mm wide zip ties that fit through the bottom of the 1704s, but not sure if they will fit around the booms, or even hold the motors tight enough. We shall see.



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