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Feb 16, 2015, 11:44 AM
Martin

Scores


Chris,
Check which filed you posted as they look like a test file.
I finished 12th w/o even showing up.
Mart
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Feb 16, 2015, 12:03 PM
NorCal Electric Soaring (NES)
SoaringDude's Avatar
Thread OP
Mart, were you able to read the Comment note that is part of each PDF? I'll repeat that same note that appears in each PDF:
"Only highlighted names are pilots who actually flew in this trial contest. The rest were added with random scores to fully test the scoring program. "
Feb 16, 2015, 12:25 PM
Registered User
I flew with the Altis device using pure f5j rules. No preset altitude allowed, only my best judgement as a pilot during launch. Note the labels for motor on, motor off and the F5J altitude in the flight record below. By the way, the readout screen on the Altis was easy to see even in the light and thus recording F5J height at the end of he flight is quick and easy.

Note the nice thermal. The blue line is the variometer (vertical speed in m/s). It is nothing more than the derivative of altitude vs. time calculated from the stored data and is not available to the pilot during the flight.

Jonathan

P.S. Sorry about the labels being cut off. I'll try to fix that later today. Note the labeled F5J altitude so you can easily scale the rest of the altitude.
Last edited by jpherit; Feb 18, 2015 at 07:38 PM. Reason: Added .png file that shows proper graph. cleaned up prose a bit.
Feb 16, 2015, 01:10 PM
Martin
Read the comment but on overall results no names appear to be highlighted.
It's a minor point, I was hoping to here more about how the event went.
Feb 16, 2015, 01:15 PM
NorCal Electric Soaring (NES)
SoaringDude's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfski
...I was hoping to here more about how the event went.
Everything worked as planned. Am working on a "things learned" post but today is very busy. Others are free to post impressions in the meantime.
Feb 16, 2015, 08:19 PM
Registered User
Mart,
I see a yellow band on each of the pilot's names who flew on my lap top. Must be somehow different on your computer.

I thought everything went very well and very smoothly. We all made a mistake or two keeping the rules straight. But that is just becoming familiar with them. My biggest goof, repeated by others, was to come in on my timer's time announcements instead of the time countdown provided by the computer announcements. I had a 9:59 for a ten minute flight but was a second over the window because I launched one second after start horn, and thus my landing score was zeroed. One must land within the 10 minute window!

Chris did a great job putting the announcements on FM radio, printing and posting scores after each round, and then using a tether, uploaded results to RCGroups after the contest. One could look at the results on your smart phone by accessing RCGroups while at the field! Plus, he printed out a nice color certificate on quality paper as a "trophy"

Oh yes, it was fun doing man on man and thanks to Scott Meader for guiding me on round two.
Last edited by jpherit; Feb 16, 2015 at 09:29 PM. Reason: typos and adding credit due
Feb 18, 2015, 12:01 PM
NorCal Electric Soaring (NES)
SoaringDude's Avatar
Thread OP

SVSS F5J Trial Contest notes


First, I want to say that it's nice to have the trial contest show a good result after so much discussion and planning with Aric Wilmunder and Jerry Molnar. With Aric's ALES contest-running experience and Jerry's unbounded enthusiasm (and I DO mean unbounded ) and love of soaring it's not possible to take much of a nosedive with F5J.

Aside from meeting our goal of verifying the contest equipment I'll summarize a few things we learned from this trial. Maybe others will chime in. Jonathan Heritage's point about being tripped up by a few F5J rules in this maiden voyage is well made--more on that below. Here is my "What we learned" list:

Pre-contest F5 rules and strategy tutorial - Tutorial was well received with lots of good questions and scenarios. It took a full hour and should probably be offered before each contest this year since we will probably see new F5J pilots at each contest. After the first few contest rounds it was apparent there were several items in the tutorial that bear repeating: (1) you have to land BEFORE the Working Time end signal to get landing points, (2) it's very important that (for most flight scenarios) your timer needs to be silent during the 30 second contest audio countdown to the end signal, and (3) you can't start your motor on launch until you hear the start signal otherwise it's a 100pnt penalty. So next time we do the tutorial we will add extra emphasis to these points.

Pre-printed "disposable" scorecards -- We used the GliderScore option where each pilot gets a set of individual pre-printed scorecards that are pre-labeled for each round. Once a pilot fills out a card and turns it in they do not need it back for the next round. This greatly improved the contest flow since cards don't have to be cycled through the scorekeeper and back to the pilots before each round.

Contest audio announcement automation - Once the pilot names were entered and recorded in GliderScore and the flight matrix created, the audio announcement sequence for the entire contest was generated with a few mouse clicks (all contest audio segments had been recorded before the contest; GliderScore then generates a playlist using them). We didn't have to use the microphone once. Combining this audio automation feature with disposable scorecards gave the scoring person (me) the freedom to time for pilots in some rounds and do the actual score entry work under fewer time constraints.

Pilot matrix printouts -- We posted 2 printouts of the pilot matrix that in F5J gets fully drawn before the contest starts. One printout shows the round-by-round pilot list and another is a grid that displays how many times you are pitted against each pilot. I noticed pilots referring to these sheets often throughout the contest--it's nice to see who you're flying against since each round's scores are normalized to the top pilot's score in that group.

Back to back rounds option -- When GliderScore does the draws for the pilot matrix it gives you an option to allow for "back to back flights" or not. For this contest we allowed back-to-back flights since it ensures the best/fairest pilot draws. But this means you could only have 5 mins of Prep Time to swap or recharge batteries before you are up for your next flight. Be prepared!

F5J versus ALES differences that "caught" many pilots at least during their first round:
Landing countdown -- Your timer needs to be quiet during last 30 secs of automated Working Time countdown since landing after the end signal will cost you your landing points.
Starting motors too early - If you start your motor before the start signal it will cost you a 100pt penalty in F5J. i.e. you can't "spin up" your motor before letting go at the signal.

Printing results after each round -- First we printed and posted the pilot matrix, then after each round we printed the overall results and a few other sheets and taped them to the table. This is important information as you plan your strategy for your next flight.

FM broadcast of contest audio
- The flight line for this contest was not long so the need for extending the reach of the contest audio was not critical. However, with F5J it's very important that you clearly hear the start and end signals, especially the end signal given the no-landing penalty if you land late. With a longer flight line given the speed of sound delays it's possible for pilots at the far end to lose landing points because of a ~1/3 second sound delay*. FM contest audio could also be a benefit for anyone with less than perfect hearing: simply use a small personal FM radio and a single earphone and you're set.
* In larger contests the landing judge will likely be close to a speaker and will compare your plane's touchdown time to the sound he hears.
Posting scores from the field - The Internet connection to the scoreing laptop worked well but it took a bit of effort setting things up in the weeks before this contest. Since it's not directly pertinent here I just posted details on how this was set up and accomplished on my blog.

-------------------------

That's it for the trial contest summary. Looking forward to our first real F5J contest soon

Chris B.
Feb 18, 2015, 03:01 PM
Registered User
Question Chris:

I noticed that the start of time window horn (and end of time window horn) last a noticable (but short) time. I would spin up the prop as soon as I hear the start horn and launch immediately when the prop had spun up which was usually a very brief time after or at the end of horn. Is that all right? Does the time window open at the start of horn sounding?

Likewise does the 10 minute window end on start of horn sounding or end of horn sounding?

Jonathan
(splitting a second here or there!)
Feb 18, 2015, 03:30 PM
NorCal Electric Soaring (NES)
SoaringDude's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpherit
Question Chris:

I noticed that the start of time window horn (and end of time window horn) last a noticable (but short) time. I would spin up the prop as soon as I hear the start horn and launch immediately when the prop had spun up which was usually a very brief time after or at the end of horn. Is that all right? Does the time window open at the start of horn sounding?

Likewise does the 10 minute window end on start of horn sounding or end of horn sounding?

Jonathan
(splitting a second here or there!)
Great questions Jonathan. Yes at the start of the horn signal you're ok to motor on and launch. Re: the length I am using a popular F3J horn sound that has been used for years. And yes the Working Time ends at the start of the horn. i.e. if a landing judge sees that you are still airborne when the horn is first heard your landing points are donated to the soaring gods .

And now more audio timing details from the Anal Retentive Chef: For the entire 1-min audio countdown sequence to the final horn I used a visual audio editor (Audacity) to ensure that the start of every time utterance ("30" "29" ... "1" "beeeep") is exact to within a few milliseconds.

Macht das Sinn? (hope Google Translate did that right)
Feb 18, 2015, 07:14 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoaringDude
Great questions Jonathan. Yes at the start of the horn signal you're ok to motor on and launch. Re: the length I am using a popular F3J horn sound that has been used for years. And yes the Working Time ends at the start of the horn. i.e. if a landing judge sees that you are still airborne when the horn is first heard your landing points are donated to the soaring gods .

And now more audio timing details from the Anal Retentive Chef: For the entire 1-min audio countdown sequence to the final horn I used a visual audio editor (Audacity) to ensure that the start of every time utterance ("30" "29" ... "1" "beeeep") is exact to within a few milliseconds.

Macht das Sinn? (hope Google Translate did that right)
Yes it does make sense and I think the Google translation is OK - at least I understand it. To check, I found the phrase in Linguee, which is an excellent online dictionary that relies on a huge database of written German with English translations and vice versa. But Lorentz is the expert.

Another question:

I gather you pre-recorded the names used in the computer controlled announcements. What will you do at a contest when 10 or 15 new folks show up with names not prerecorded?

Jonathan
Feb 18, 2015, 10:18 PM
NorCal Electric Soaring (NES)
SoaringDude's Avatar
Thread OP
Once the pilot names are entered, a Pilot Audio File Maintenance screen (below) shows all pilots in a list. With the headset plugged in it takes literally 15 seconds to record and review each name. And worse case if we don't manually record them each name's audio file is synthetically generated.

I have found GliderScore to be a very mature program--and that's coming from someone who's pretty critical about software
Feb 19, 2015, 12:11 AM
Registered User
It sure looks like a well thought out and constructed program. I am impressed.
Feb 22, 2015, 11:38 AM
E sailplane thermal hack
Very much enjoyed how SMOOTHLY it went Chris!
Not to beat a dead horse, but it really can't be emphasized enough just HOW important it is to listen to the Recorded countdown in the last 30secs and NOT your timer. Also Aric and I found out that many times it's hard to tell just how high our planes were during launch, is it allowable to set our limiters to 200m cutoff so that we don't exceed 200m with option of cutting off sooner???
By the way I've discovered that when I DO set my limiter for 200m, I'm STILL recording 217-220m Max altitude because of ZOOM I'm presuming,, soo,, I guess if I don't WANA exceed 200m I'll havta set my Sky limit for 183m cutoff HUH??

Jerry in Chico
Feb 22, 2015, 12:28 PM
NorCal Electric Soaring (NES)
SoaringDude's Avatar
Thread OP
Jerry, I agree the timer needs to be silent during the final end signal countdown. This is covered in #17 in our strategy tutorial but we will emphasize this before each contest this year.

Regarding setting your altimeter to a cutoff, since we will be allowing ALES CAMs we probably should also allow it even if you have an F5J limiter. From an F5J purist's point of view, though, using a cutoff could be thought of as an advantage since as you have found it's not always easy to estimate your real height.

Regarding your typical zoom this is why the Phoenix club requires ALES CAM pilots to add 10mtr to their CAM altitude. You're consistently getting higher zooms 'cause you're flying a 100oz plane, dude . p=mv Lots of momentum there...
Feb 23, 2015, 10:05 AM
E sailplane thermal hack
Next I'm going to check how high the zooms are with my 25oz Scorpion ,it's light but very slippery,
I'm wondering if drag isn't also a factor in zoom height. Just curious.


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