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Jan 22, 2015, 05:07 PM
Boomer1
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Got a message from Sandy advising he shipped the kit with arrival expected late next week. Once it arrives I will document the contents and post them here.


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Jan 22, 2015, 06:53 PM
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Harken upgrade......


Total Harken Upgrade......Will Post AS Well.....DD
Last edited by Derusha; Jan 22, 2015 at 06:54 PM. Reason: typo
Jan 23, 2015, 04:57 PM
Boomer1
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Question for Thomas


Hey Thomas -
Hoping you are monitoring the thread. I just found out the kit I have purchased besides missing the mast, is missing the electric motor, drive line and propeller assembly.
While researching the web, I found the motor assembly unit which in the spec's mentions the Rubin by name, so I am hoping this the unit the boat would have come with.

Can you confirm this is the unit (pictured below) the same or about the same as the one you designed or specified for the Rubin? My sense is that since it only weighs .25 lbs. it not being in the boat should have little or no effect on the boats balance or overall performance.

Now the trick is to try to find one of these or a replacement since these are not made anymore. Anyone have a source for these things? I found the Robbe unit at Cornwall - have to get the boat to get some dimensional information. Everything I know about these two Drive sets is printed here. Found what I think is the Graupner prop Part No: G2329 .

Thank you
Boomer

found these items on line:
Graupner sailing yacht power set Model: G1175 think this is the Rubin OEM Drive set.
43,80EUR
Product information
Powerful auxiliary motor system for powering sailing yachts such as the RUBIN in the forwards direction. The folding propeller minimizes drag when sailing. The set contains: SPEED 400 6 V electric motor, miniature 1:3 gearbox, shaft with stern-tube, folding propeller, lubricating nipple with tube, spark-suppressor condenser, power leads with 2-pin AMP plug, fixing screws. Weight: 0.25lbs



2329 Folding propeller Manufactured by: Graupner
Special propeller for sailing yachts. When the motor is idle the propeller blades in the flow. This reduces drag compared with conventional boat propellers. Because of the folding blades the propeller is only suitable for forwards running. Propeller diameter 50 mm M4 Thread. The blades can be cut down to 35 mm diameter if required.
Part No: G2329
Price: 15.05 (Including VAT at 20%)
Euros: €19.41 (Inc VAT) / US Dollars: US$18.94 (Tax Free)
Last edited by Boomer1; Jan 23, 2015 at 08:19 PM.
Jan 24, 2015, 01:48 PM
Registered User
Boomer, I have two of those Graupner units with the folding props in my Atlantis. Using a small 2S Lipo, the thing almost planes!
Jan 24, 2015, 02:09 PM
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PM Sent...
Jan 24, 2015, 05:22 PM
Boomer1
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I have found the Robbe units but no luck on the Graupner Drive set. I have located the folding props, so it maybe that the folding prop will fit the Robbe drive set?

dobydog6507
Got your PM - Thank you
Boomer
Last edited by Boomer1; Jan 25, 2015 at 09:52 AM.
Jan 25, 2015, 02:14 AM
Useful Idiot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer1
I have found the Robbe units but no luck on the Graupner Drive set. I have located the folding props, so it maybe that the folding prop will fit the Robbe drive set?
Got your PM - Thank you
Boomer
Both I think, speaking from memory, are 4mm thread. I used a Robbe unit for a smalll launch and Graupner props fitted.
Jan 25, 2015, 05:12 AM
toyboatskipper
Thomas MM GER15's Avatar
Hi Boomer,

the auxiliary e-motor set is not part of the kit but has to be bought separate as well as the smaller sail suit. Just the ballast weight is part of the kit even it comes separate in its own package.

While the folding prop is somewhat nice to play with, it is not really needed. If there is really zero wind you can move the boat with quick ruder moving also back to shore.

Also it works only in forward direction. The formal prototype made from metal worked also rewards as the blades defolded due to their mass and centrifugal force - the plastic ones are too light.


Unfortunately the original set from Graupner includes a very simple and noisy gearbox (similar to the Robbe unit, which I think will fit as well even it might have a bigger motor (type 500 I guess) but the shaft is also for props with M4 screw ). As the prop is quite big in diameter (that was due to folding the blades back for sure by water flow) it is not intended for a more quietly gearless drive. But as you can reduce the blades in diameter from original 50 mm down to about 35 mm by yourself with some care, maybe it works when you have a direct drive with a small powerful motor in matters of torque but not much rotation. The original gear has 1:3 and that was with its Speed 400 motor still quite much – too much for my eyes. I used the prop with reduced blades like it is shown on the pic.


As often with that still new SJ/Graupner Company, they offer different informations around about their products. So far I have seen the unit and the prop is still offered in their latest new overall catalogue by end of 2014 - see screen shot. But I did not find it on their german online shop… (Same with MM, in the catalogue they display only the RTR version (and in its old version…) but not the two kit versions which at least the standard rMM kit is now available again. Somewhat still strange company…)
I know that the prop was made by a supplier which has retired one or two years ago. Do not know if they have bought the tools and sent them to SJ / far east.


About your winch ideas:
Do not know if using an arm-winch/servo might be a good idea for this boat. The main sheet needs quite a lot of travel lenght (due to its scale concept with attachment at the main boom far aft) thus you have to use a kind of mechanical gear ratio to increase main sheet travel via pulley block (as e.g. Micro Magics have it as well) as you have no space for a long servo arm. In my eyes this will give more stress to the servo than with drum winches and their much smaller drums. Also be aware the relative big main sail produces much power(moments) not only when sailing just overpowered but e.g. when shifting…. The boat with its up to 6,5 kg is quite a heavy diva and you should keep an eye on her mass reaction. Sail area is similar to Marblehead A / B sails. As far I have seen Ms are not using arm-servos for sheeting, just smaller IOMs do.


I am still using an old Whirlwind drum-winch of early 90ties days in my RUBIN (just black painted ,-) , powered with just 6 V instead 7,2 V (which was more common in Marbleheads to have better speed/power) The power (relating to instruction paper infos) might be somewhat about just 80-90 Ncm, the later Regatta winch from JR/Graupner was similar. Never had had troubles with not enough power or gear failure etc. However both winches are not available anymore.

I am not up to date about what you can get today instead. The RMG 280 might be an option - but it is costly…. So far I know there is a clone available in Europe somewhere (Italia ?) which is similar but less costly.

Maybe one of the much more cheaper Hitec-winches will do, but so far I have seen them some years ago they are really slow… Even it is scale when the sails do not sheet in / out to quickly (as it will be per arm-winch) those just “modified into winch servos” may be like sailing the original boat with a crew of > 90 years old people ,-))

So far I have seen SJ/Graupner have now just four new drum winch types in their product range as replacements for their formal two Regatta-versions – but I do not know about them and how they operate in praxis.

There are Eurgle winches available, which are as well quite cheap and also quick in turns, but these seems to be sensitive in praxis when stressed / overpowered and there are some reports in www about burned electronics….

So I am sorry, but there will be some research about what can be used today.


Regards
Thomas

Edit: Just as you say MM is out of production and even I do not want to make any kind of "advertisement" for that company anymore: As mentioned above, Micro Magic is now back in production since end of 2014. You can get a modified RTR version (similar to Mike Westons CHAMP race version) and the white standard rMM kit in its more or less unmodified version. The carbon imitate version will come also in some weeks (not to say months...) . At least thats for sure for Germany and I have seen both models offered in a shop in Berlin (but did not looked into the boxes). But I have heard there are problems in other countries not only with suppliers in USA as the management have made some new distribution rules which makes it not very attractive to order kits due to costs for "small" dealers... Even very professional and successful worldwide MM dealer Mike Weston from UK did not get them up to now due to distribution / cost issues...
Last edited by Thomas MM GER15; Jan 25, 2015 at 05:43 AM.
Jan 25, 2015, 10:16 AM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
Thomas,
Again, thank you for your very generous response! This information is very helpful. Good to know the drive set was not in the original kit. This suggests the motor issue is easily resolved by not installing one. Granted, it would be a nice thing to have, but since all but one of my other sailboats are 100% wind powered, it wouldn't really be missed.

I have a Kyosho Fairwind lll that has been modified to include an electric motor. It uses a German drive set and has a standard prop which permits both forward and reverse thrust.
I rarely use the motor, but it is fun to surprise an unsuspecting sailor now and then
My friend Dean Derusha purchased the 2nd Rubin from Sandy, so perhaps with his experience in building custom RC yachts we can figure out the best sail winches to use. Some of those following this thread have made some suggestions already, so a little time invested should yield a proper choice.

I will be studying your remarks carefully. This kind of information is really appreciated!! I will repost the information you shared regarding the MM's status on the MM page. I am sure those interested will appreciate the update.


Thank you
Boomer
Last edited by Boomer1; Jan 25, 2015 at 08:43 PM.
Jan 26, 2015, 05:43 AM
Registered User

Another Rubin from Italy


Hello all, my name is Federico from Italy.
Some years ago I was given a partially completed Rubin by a friend of my father. He wanted to use it as the central hull of a trimaran but (luckily) he got stuck with the project and gave the thing away complete of everything except all the scale fittings (winches, rails, rudder bar etc.). Even the Graupner Regatta winch was included!

The model is still sitting in my lab waiting for completion/restoration, but hopefully this great thread will ignite the spark again

The boat had been painted yellow, but I would like to repaint it white and restore it to the factory scheme. I could also find on ebay the original decal sheet that was missing too.

Attached a low res pic of how she looked like when I received her.

Regards,
Federico
Jan 26, 2015, 11:37 AM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
Bongiorno Federico,
Good to hear from you. It would be very helpful if you could take some pictures of the mast assembly for the Rubin and post them here. As well provide the overall length of it in it's assembled state.

Does your boat have a motor? Did it come with any servos? Like to see pictures of those items if you have them and any specifications you might have on the servos. Pictures of the inside of the boat would be of interest. Not sure how far long the construction was, perhaps he did very little if his intent was to built a multi-hull?

Glad you we able to save the Rubin from becoming a part of multi-hull project. Can't image what the guy was thinking. You mentioned your kit missing is all the scale fittings (winches, rails, rudder bar etc.). Dean Derusha
should be able to help you with some of the missing parts. He manufactures miniature Harken Winches and blocks.
I posted a few pictures for you to get the idea. You can contact him via his e-mail: miniatureharken@yahoo.com

I am sure you can find someone that has the software to re-create the decals for you. We have places here that produce custom decals for RC boats and planes. Here is a link to one of this forum's better known suppliers: http://www.callie-graphics.com/

I am sure they'd be able to create whatever you needed and mail it to you. She is very reasonable and her work is as good as I've seen.

Thanks for joining us on this adventure.
Boomer
Last edited by Boomer1; Jan 26, 2015 at 01:18 PM.
Jan 27, 2015, 02:25 AM
Registered User
Thanks for all the infos. I will for sure take some pictures, and measurements of the mast. My boat is not far from completion: deck and internal structure are basically done. The cabin needs to be completed and sealed. Anyway I stripped her in order to repaint her.

In the meantime, if you need some good pictures take a look at this swiss' guy page with a build log of the Rubin:

http://www.girard71.ch/modellbau_rubin.cfm

It's in german but the pictures speak for themselves!

Federico

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer1
Bongiorno Federico,
Good to hear from you. It would be very helpful if you could take some pictures of the mast assembly for the Rubin and post them here. As well provide the overall length of it in it's assembled state.

Does your boat have a motor? Did it come with any servos? Like to see pictures of those items if you have them and any specifications you might have on the servos. Pictures of the inside of the boat would be of interest. Not sure how far long the construction was, perhaps he did very little if his intent was to built a multi-hull?

Glad you we able to save the Rubin from becoming a part of multi-hull project. Can't image what the guy was thinking. You mentioned your kit missing is all the scale fittings (winches, rails, rudder bar etc.). Dean Derusha
should be able to help you with some of the missing parts. He manufactures miniature Harken Winches and blocks.
I posted a few pictures for you to get the idea. You can contact him via his e-mail: miniatureharken@yahoo.com

I am sure you can find someone that has the software to re-create the decals for you. We have places here that produce custom decals for RC boats and planes. Here is a link to one of this forum's better known suppliers: http://www.callie-graphics.com/

I am sure they'd be able to create whatever you needed and mail it to you. She is very reasonable and her work is as good as I've seen.

Thanks for joining us on this adventure.
Boomer
Jan 27, 2015, 10:43 AM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
Federico,
I will get busy translating this build article. I am sure it will be extremely helpful! I use Google translate - when I do that there will be some words that won't translate correctly. Anyone fluent in German? Let me know, I can shoot a copy of the translated document to you to review. The photos are amazing!
Thank you in advance.
Boomer
Last edited by Boomer1; Jan 27, 2015 at 05:31 PM.
Jan 27, 2015, 01:37 PM
Registered User
If you read the article from top to bottom, it tells you how to take a fully assembled Rubin and return it to its "boxed" state!
Jan 28, 2015, 01:54 AM
Registered User
Fluent is not the right word in my case, but I lived in Germany for one year (two blocks away from Graupner's HQ, in Kirchheim/Teck, by the way ;-) ) so hopefully I can be of some help. Just ask!

Federico

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer1
Federico,
I will get busy translating this build article. I am sure it will be extremely helpful! I use Google translate - when I do that there will be some words that won't translate correctly. Anyone fluent in German? Let me know, I can shoot a copy of the translated document to you to review. The photos are amazing!
Thank you in advance.
Boomer


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