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Dec 23, 2014, 10:39 AM
Boomer1
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Dobydog
There are a number of video's of the Rubin. I felt that one gave a good sense of the boat.

Thom has responded to my request for information, but has to do some research since he no longer has any access to Graupner's old files.
I am hoping to find someone that has a boat so i can get some good intell. These things are more rare than the Yamaha RTW. I don't know how many of these were sold but my guess is not many in the U.S. They were very expensive when they were in production. Shipping would have been pretty high which would have been another deterrent to selling them over here. I'd like to see one to see the actual quality of the boat also to know how well they sail.

By the way, the location of the Wellesley Ontario RC Show is really beautiful! How far away is that place from you? Since we sold our property at the RV resort, I've had to get accustomed to using the local public ponds/lakes to sail. Got very spoiled over the last ten years having private lakes to use. Having to learn what the rest of the sailing world has to go through to go sailing.

Posted a few pictures of my new home lake, Harveston Lake about 6 miles from my home. Very pretty for sure.

Here is Thom's response to me regarding my inquiries on the mast spec's

"Hi Rick,
Thanks for your imitative and information. Currently I have no access to my material so I can not give you info about the mast dimensions immediately. But I will look for it as soon as possible in the next days.

As the RUBIN is out of production I wonder if there will be much interest in this boat for a thread about it - but will see. Have not sailed my boat for years now, so far I remember last time was about 2004/2005, about 10 years ago...

I think I have emailed with Andrew Rust (flatlandsailor) about the mast issue when Sandy received his kits in 2011 and discovered the problem of missing mast. Will look if I have a copy of the email.

Anyway, the original mast was made of three groovy sections from Graham Bantock / Sails etc. - 9.6, 11.1 and 12.7 mm diameter. Unfortunately Graham stopped production of 9.6 mm diameter years ago. He offered Graupner a revised mast made out of 11.1 and 12.7 only but Graupner's boat manager failed to take that opportunity. But I think you can email Graham and ask for it as customer. Both profiles are still in production for IOM boats.Be aware that the mast has to be bent to match the main sail correctly. The main sail will not fit to a straight mast! "
Regards
Thomas
Last edited by Boomer1; Jan 23, 2015 at 10:50 PM.
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Dec 23, 2014, 12:18 PM
Registered User
The Wellesley pond is about 25 minutes from where I live...I'm the bozo at the 1:56 mark who has all the checkered FE boats on the table. You can also see Robert's Yamaha (mine stayed at home as there was no more room in the SUV) and my Graupner trimaran.

Robert made the vid using his Phantom quad-copter.

Your new lake location is pretty sweet.

I'm going to contact the local boat club president and see if I can get the contact info for the guy (Ernie) with the Ruben and maybe stop by over the holidays if he's not busy. I'll take my camera and tape measure.

It really is a shame that Graupner and Robbe got out of the sailboats....they made some great scale kits...something that's sadly missing nowadays.
Dec 23, 2014, 04:29 PM
Registered User

We are nothing but scale.......


Scale Does Still Live And Thrive....
Dec 23, 2014, 05:40 PM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
Hey Mr. D
Long time no talk! Good to hear from you! Hope you and your family are well.
Merry Christmas. Could the winches on the Rubin be some of yours?
Boomer
Dec 23, 2014, 09:20 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derusha
Scale Does Still Live And Thrive....
Kind of a useless comment....

care to share a link or a bit more info???
Dec 24, 2014, 03:33 AM
Registered User

Hi,.......please see pic.....


Merry Christmas....
Boomer!
Dec 24, 2014, 03:35 AM
Registered User

photobucket.......4,000 pics


Photobucket.Com/ModelyachtwOrld
Dec 24, 2014, 05:32 AM
wolfgang
tuppesw's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobydog6507
Kind of a useless comment....

care to share a link or a bit more info???

Merry Christmas

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=2016770


the dark one Fukkelum is a Graupner Rubin, a really fast one, if weed is no problem




BTW: Graupners Rubin is the reference for our yardstick races.
It comes with a RW = 1.0 (sailed time = leveled time)
Dec 24, 2014, 05:54 AM
Registered User

Great photo!


Beautiful Models.........Thanks For Sharing. Dd
Dec 24, 2014, 09:57 AM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
tuppesw,
Hoping you may know the owner of the pictured Rubin. If so can you see if you can put me in touch with him?
If you do know him, I can send you my e-mail address via a PM. I am trying get the dimensions of the mast on the Rubin and some good close up photos of these boats.
This boat appears to have upgraded sails and be stripped down for speed. (Can't see any deck details the kit comes with) Any additional information would be appreciated!

I reposted the two best pictures I have found showing Rubin mast set ups. Before I move forward on a Rubin project, having the spec's for the mast would be very helpful.
Thank you
Boomer
Last edited by Boomer1; Dec 24, 2014 at 10:28 AM.
Dec 24, 2014, 10:36 AM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
Found a couple additional videos of a Rubin. Both from Germany in 2011
"Rubin sailboat first time sailing May 2006"
RC sailboat Rubin eerste keer zeilen mei 2006 (0 min 51 sec)

"Graupner Ruby on tour"
Graupner Rubin auf Fahrt (0 min 42 sec)
Last edited by Boomer1; Jan 23, 2015 at 10:49 PM.
Dec 24, 2014, 01:27 PM
Registered User
Didn't know Austin Powers sailed a Rubin...
Dec 26, 2014, 05:26 PM
Boomer1
Boomer1's Avatar
With help from Wolfgang (tuppesw) I have been able to collect more photos of this very beautiful Rubin. Wolfgang is also helping me gather much needed information and tips from the boat's owner in Germany.

Information published by the boat's owner suggests the rudder may be too small but later determined that factory sails are to large for heavy conditions. He also suggests that mast and keel needed to be reinforced to be able to handle heavy conditions. The factory did offer a "storm set" of sails for these types of sailing conditions. interestingly, I found set for sale at Cornwall Models : Rubin "Storm set" Part No: G1990

All the information we are getting is in German so it all needs to be translated for me to understand it. Google translates only so much and doesn't know sailboat terminology. Wolfgang is providing additional help in translating those.

So far the information is coming from old articles published in European RC forums in years past. We are attempting to contact the owners in the hope of getting a real time dialog going! This may take some time.
Thank you my friend!!
Boomer
Last edited by Boomer1; Dec 27, 2014 at 01:41 PM.
Dec 27, 2014, 05:52 AM
toyboatskipper
Thomas MM GER15's Avatar
Hi,

It is nice to see some discussion about Rubin here. Currently I am a bit busy with other things so please apologize that I cannot spent much input to it right now.

Boomer (Rick), why so in hurry about the mast? The kit building instructions / drawings give information about the original mast setup as far as I remember. So when you get a complete kit at least you have all parts and information just unfortunately except the original mast tubes.

The original mast was a combination of three groovy section from www.sailsetc.com with as far I have right backups 510 mm length of 9,6 mm, 660 mm of 11,1 and 750 mm of 12,7 mm but I think that was a sample before production. The first one seems to me the better one.
The smaller diameter were about 40 mm (I think so) inserted in the bigger one and there have been an inside reinforcement of the join as well. All parts from sailsetc.

A replacement mast can be made out of two 1000 mm groovy profiles, I would suggest 1000 mm of 12,7 mm and the rest out of the 11,1 mm profile.
http://sailsetc.com/magento/index.ph...oom-spars.html

I am sure Graham still has his offer for Graupner and can arrange a mast for you if asked.

As far as I know Graupner very lately made a replacement mast out of carbon tubes. I have seen just the instruction manual for that but have to say that I do not like it not only as you have to change the main sail as well. However, at least at the end they offered something after months / years without it…

Such new mast will give a little bit more stiffness and more tension to the jib which is good to have. The original one was a bit flexible (like the thin 1:1 mast on the IOR-yachts had been ,-)) and it requires some skills to get a good trim to the rig. Indeed I have seen more Rubins with more or less bad up to indeed harmful rig trim than good ones - obviously the original set up was not good for most customers as it was too complicated. As was the whole boat and its building. It requires a certain amount of fun and time in building a model just from several parts and not all parts are just ready to use – something which is out fashioned today (and was already back in early 1990ties).

When build right and trimmed with some skill you get a boat with good sailing performance when you know about sailing. The sailing reactions remain to the original IOR boats as well and you have to use some trim tricks they also used to sail the boats well. For example when some say the rudder is too small – I used it on bigger Marbleheads and a 10R without any problems. If the rudder is loosing control it’s a fault of rig trim – or at the end simply too much wind for the sail area. When sailing in moderate / fresh winds the jib is needed to be sheeted a bit closer than on normal model yachts / or the main must be opened a bit causing the front part of the main profile to come to luff. That’s something the originals also have when sailing upwind and is a key to performance. Its needed for this boat with its quite large and wide main sail. Also there should be a reasonable amount of twist to the main while trying to get the jib nearly without it. Otherwise indeed the boat will become very very weather helmy and heels a lot without much speed. Very complicated to sail properly…

The original sail size is intended for light weather sailing. Graupner offered a smaller sail suit in addition called “professional storm sails”. Order number was 1990. (It is not what the pic of Boomer shows - that are standard MM sails) In formal catalog info there was a side view pic of it. A combination of A-jib and the smaller mainsail makes a good fresh wind combination as well as I have seen good results with a reduced A mainsail cut down at the bottom of about 50 mm which gives better allround abilities and makes the boat easier to sail.

When building the boat new I would suggest some modifications:

- modify the cabin roof: split it after the mast and glue the front part to the deck. That will give better handling of the boats rc when the rig is set. However you have to find a solution for a good sealing of the detachable rest of the cabin as in fresh winds the deck gets water…

- place the battery aft below the cockpit floor, not beside the keel box. The boat likes to be trimmed more aft than suggested in the kit. You can also move the bulb somewhat more aft at the fin (10-20 mm), in combination with battery in original position or in combination. When sailing in fresh winds the boat likes to get weight aft to gets its bow better above water ,-) Even the boat concept was tested in several versions before the kit version was build the kit came out a little too nose touched when fully equipped (with thick painting, additional e-motor and big batteries etc…)

- the sheeting is not really perfect. Often the jib opens more than wished causing the boat getting out of balance when sailing on a reach. When making the cabin modification you should position the deck fairlead of the jib sheet on the front cabin part more closer to the mast position and position the attachment at the jib boom as well more aft.

Some years ago I have added a jib sheet servo trim to get better control / better trim of the standard jib arrangement. With modern computer transmitters you can program a mix function to the winch function which will reduce jib sheet travel when opening the sheets. I use it just manually. It gives me a better control for sailing and trim.

Another useful RC-trim function would be a backstay trim. Would be also easy to make.

On my model I removed the formal additional e-motor, even it gave some fun with it when there is no wind anymore. But I stick to that a sail boat has to use only wind ,-)

I have also modified the sails for getting better light wind performance – see pics. Its not done by only cuts outs out of the original quite stiff material but I also changed luff curve of the main to a less big one. That reduced “trouble” when sail is sheeted out and the great amount of original luff curve will be pressed somewhat to the sideway straight mast… To get enough rig tension / jib tension I pre bent the mast carefully (as it is common on IOM masts as well). The first suits of RUBIN sails were made out of a good old mylar/dacron sandwich material which was slightly to stiff but acceptable but later they changed the material to a stiffer dacron one – not really good for that original rig set up… Indeed I think sails made from thin ICAREX 31p material would be nice for this boat.


Some info about development of RUBIN, you might be interested in:


Development of RUBIN started back in late 1990. After taking part at a Naviga championship I visited Graupner and Mr. Hans Graupner asked for a new sail boat as follower of the long years established OPTIMIST 1-ton model from late 60ties. I started to generate some suggestions and it ended with RUBIN. In those days the yachts from our formal DSV president Hans Otto Schümann were well known and yachts to the formal IOR rules were also common on water, as it was Optimist in earlier days, or the model of Saudade from mid 70ties from Hegi (later Revell-Hegi and Wedico). I came into contact with Friedrich Judel in Hamburg, one of the two designers (Judel & Vrolijk Design) of the original. He suggested hull lines from a more modern boat concept to the to that days new IMS rating which would have given a better sailing model as these hulls already were / are nor as beamy and thick as formal typical IOR hulls had been. In some aspects more closer to what Marblehead hulls had been. But as there had been no famous Rubin to that new lines it was decided for one of the successful and well known IOR boats / Rubin (sisterboats were PINTA and OUTSIDER). He made a special scaled down hull drawing of the VIII (or VIX) boat with won in 1985 the Admirals Cup with the german team and got some popularity. As the original IOR-yachts were very beamy and scaled down with unchanged proportions would generate not a really good model boat the model lines were modified to a less beamy version. That’s why RUBIN is about 100 mm less in width than the original and not scale. Also the underwater lines were modified for better water flow as the very characteristic IOR-rating hull "buckle" at the ruder was not scaled down. From this lines Graupner workers made a first simple hull plug from wood and sent me vacuum formed parts to start with a first prototype for testing sails/keel/ruder arrangements. There was also made a full size display demonstration model out of balsa as well – something Mr. Graupner was used to get an own impression of the new model as he was not able to get it out just from drawings. Beside the time and work for it a good help to find some faults here and there in proportions as well.
All in all it took two years to get the boat as kit to the market. I will look for some pics of the development process but not in the next days.

At those past times I was more or less satisfied with the result (even there are always some things which could/should have been made different in kit boats and I never get one of my own kit boats really to 100% in my eyes - even MM failed beside all experience we got over the time with that boat and offered it to the manufacturer for free to improve their product to become better right out of the box for same money). However not only today I would not make this boat again. Not such an original as basis and not in the way the kit was made / the boat is constructed. Think it was much too complicated in building and also sailing for the customers. Also there had been quality problems over all the years e.g. with the laminated parts which came from several suppliers over the years. The fins were often somewhat to thick causing troubles to fit into the integrated box of the hull as well the hull quailty differed sometimes badly. During production time later the sails were made out of too thick material as the (good) sail maker did not get thinner material except ofsimple spi coth and a sample made out of that was worse than the thicker material in my eyes. That would have been not a big problem if the whole mast/rig layout would have been a different one, a more conventional version without need of bending. Like Robbe used one on their Smaragd which is much easier for customers to use. RUBIN is kind of a diva, a yacht which required some experience and skills to get the potential out of it. In that aspect it is quite scale to the formal IOR yachts ,-)


Regards
Thomas
Last edited by Thomas MM GER15; Dec 27, 2014 at 11:37 AM.
Dec 27, 2014, 06:00 AM
toyboatskipper
Thomas MM GER15's Avatar
Btw, even its just in german but here you can find some trim-pics with Rubin as sample:

http://www.micromagic-segeln.de/segeln/segeln-a.htm


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