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Oct 17, 2014, 08:49 AM
Jack
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Data

DJI E300 (2212/920KV) Motor Prop Testing


Prop Testing Data for the DJI E300 (2212/920KV) Motor

Background

The are a number of sources for props that can be fitted to the proprietary prop mounting shaft on the much used DJI E300 motor. As a result of a recent discussion I was loaned an E300 motor to use for prop testing to compare some of the DJI hub props that are available for this motor.

The seven props tested are seen in the first image. The more or less standard DJI 9443 plastic prop was included in the test too.

The majority of the props I tested came from iFlight RC or their online store at FunToBuyOnline.com.

There are only a few prop makers in China feeding the RC prop frenzy. And there are many sellers of CF and plastic props for the E300 motors. The props are available from any number of U.S. based RC equipment sellers, from RC equipment sellers in other parts of the world, and even on eBay. So don't be surprised if you find you can buy these exact same props under a number of names and descriptions and at a wide range of prices.

Prop Testing Procedures

I tested each prop at 3S (12.3V) and 4S (16.4V) voltages and at 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100% throttle settings. Heat is what kills motors. My limit for how hot I will let a motor get in static testing is 130F/54C and the temperature is taken directly from the windings. That is is a safe maximum temperture, not hot enough to damage the windings and the motor could be used at that temperature with good cooling air flow.

When the prop load raises the motor temperature to 130F/54C or higher in testing I back off on the throttle and find the maximum throttle setting that gives a stabilized (non-rising) winding temp below 130F/54C. When a motor heats up the best place to check for and find the heat is on the baseplate (the non-rotating base of te motor).

I include the maximum continuous throttle setting and the thrust at that setting in the comments if continuous full throttle is not OK. That comment applies to mostly to static testing and it will be a little different for a motor in flight. In most cases the motor will run cooler in flight than it does in static testing because the prop unloads a little, the current drops a little, and the motor has better cooling air flow. So, generally speaking, anything that does not overheat in testing will not overheat in flight.

You can make quick temperature checks in the field with a finger (motors stopped of course). If the baseplate part of the motor gets hot enough that you cannot keep a finger tip in contact with it, you are right around that 130F/54C maximum and continued full throttle operation with a rising temp could eventually damage the windings. The rotating magnet housing will not get much more than warm to the touch when the windings are at that 130F/54C temp. So make sure to check the baseplate and not the magnet housing.

In most cases, when a motor is getting too hot, dropping back to 90% or 80% throttle will make a big difference in the heat in the motor.

Propellers Tested

iFlight iCF 8055 Carbon Fiber DJI Hub (TE Style blade)

FunToBuyOnline 8045 (white plastic, MR style blade)

iFlight iCF 9047 Carbon fiber DJI Hub (DJI Style blade)

iFlight iCF 9443 Carbon Fiber DJI Hub 8mm Hole

iFlight iCF 9443 Carbon Fiber DJI Hub Self Locking

iFlight iCF 1038 Carbon Fiber DJI Hub 8mm Hole (TE Style blade)

DJI 9443 Self Locking prop (plastic blades)

The testing data is in the next post.

Jack
Last edited by jackerbes; Oct 18, 2014 at 03:51 AM.
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Oct 17, 2014, 08:58 AM
Jack
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DJI E300 Prop Testing Data


DJI E300 Prop Testing Data

The posting editor here is not kind to the display of tab spaced data, it makes it hard to read.

So I have also posted four images of the data too and also attached the data in a text file that can be downloaded.

Motor: DJI E300 (2212/920Kv) - Page 1 of 4

Prop: iFlight iCF 8055 Carbon Fiber DJI Hub (TE Style blade)
3S (12.3V)
Throttle Volts Amps Watts RPM Thrust(g) Winding Temp (F/C)
25% 12.34 0.60 10 4424 49 70/21
50% 12.32 1.55 19 6244 124 68/20
75% 12.27 2.37 29 7536 196 68/20
100% 12.16 4.46 54 9674 323 70/21
Comment: OK for continuous use

Prop: iFlight iCF 8055 Carbon Fiber DJI Hub (TE Style blade)
4S (16.4V)
Throttle Volts Amps Watts RPM Thrust(g) Winding Temp (F/C)
25% 16.38 1.05 17 5639 94 70/21
50% 16.31 2.10 34 7858 210 70/21
75% 16.27 3.57 58 9701 318 69/21
100% 16.14 6.76 109 12187 541 71/22
Comment: OK for continuous use

Prop: FunToBuyOnline 8045 (white plastic, MR style blade)
3S (12.3V)
Throttle Volts Amps Watts RPM Thrust(g) Winding Temp (F/C)
25% 12.32 0.86 11 3392 77 68/20
50% 12.27 1.92 24 4967 176 70/21
75% 12.19 4.16 51 6752 346 69/21
100% 12.01 8.06 97 8503 553 71/22
Comment: OK for continuous use

Prop: FunToBuyOnline 8045 (white plastic, MR style blade)
4S (16.4V)
Throttle Volts Amps Watts RPM Thrust(g) Winding Temp (F/C)
25% 16.38 1.19 20 4260 139 72/22
50% 16.32 2.83 46 6271 297 72/22
75% 16.16 6.45 104 8541 570 72/22
100% 15.93 12.12 193 10394 898 79/26
Comment: OK for continuous use

Motor: DJI E300 (2212/920Kv) - Page 2 of 4

Prop: iFlight iCF 9047 Carbon fiber DJI Hub (DJI Style blade)
3S (12.3V)
Throttle Volts Amps Watts RPM Thrust(g) Winding Temp (F/C)
25% 12.33 0.98 12 3246 88 74/23
50% 12.27 2.12 26 4712 204 74/23
75% 12.15 4.80 58 6481 419 76/24
100% 11.96 9.08 109 8088 637 87/31
Comment: OK for continuous use

Prop: iFlight iCF 9047 Carbon fiber DJI Hub (DJI Style blade)
4S (16.4V)
Throttle Volts Amps Watts RPM Thrust(g) Winding Temp (F/C)
25% 16.43 1.24 20 4027 135 82/28
50% 16.32 3.09 51 5995 356 82/28
75% 16.14 7.12 115 8139 652 85/29
100% 15.59 13.09 208 9838 991 124/51
Comment: 85% throttle (770g) OK for continuous use, 100% throttle OK for 5 second bursts

Prop: iFlight iCF 9443 Carbon Fiber DJI Hub 8mm Hole
3S (12.3V)
Throttle Volts Amps Watts RPM Thrust(g) Winding Temp (F/C)
25% 12.25 0.90 11 3023 104 68/20
50% 12.21 2.21 27 4552 255 69/21
75% 12.08 5.20 63 6283 490 71/22
100% 11.86 9.90 118 7821 780 79/26
Comment: OK for continuous use

Prop: iFlight iCF 9443 Carbon Fiber DJI Hub 8mm Hole
4S (16.4V)
Throttle Volts Amps Watts RPM Thrust(g) Winding Temp (F/C)
25% 16.36 1.17 19 3744 161 80/27
50% 16.27 3.32 54 5828 411 79/26
75% 16.10 7.46 120 7790 766 80/27
100% 15.81 13.75 217 9252 1171 125/52
Comment: OK for continuous use

Motor: DJI E300 (2212/920Kv) - Page 3 of 4

Prop: iFlight iCF 9443 Carbon Fiber DJI Hub Self Locking
3S (12.3V)
Throttle Volts Amps Watts RPM Thrust(g) Winding Temp (F/C)
25% 12.33 0.94 12 3508 73 70/21
50% 12.27 1.93 24 4959 192 72/22
75% 12.18 4.14 50 6741 394 76/24
100% 12.01 7.88 95 8512 631 94/34
Comment: OK for continuous use

Prop: iFlight iCF 9443 Carbon fiber DJI Hub Self Locking
4S (16.4V)
Throttle Volts Amps Watts RPM Thrust(g) Winding Temp (F/C)
25% 16.43 1.15 19 4285 133 80/27
50% 16.36 2.72 45 6270 333 80/27
75% 16.21 6.18 100 8537 636 84/29
100% 15.97 11.55 185 10460 994 123/51
Comment: OK for continuous use

Prop: iFlight iCF 1038 Carbon Fiber DJI Hub 8mm Hole (TE Style blade)
3S (12.3V)
Throttle Volts Amps Watts RPM Thrust(g) Winding Temp (F/C)
25% 12.37 0.93 12 3067 106 77/25
50% 12.30 2.30 28 4644 262 75/24
75% 12.16 5.26 64 6339 502 75/24
100% 11.95 10.07 120 7877 1034 77/25
Comment: OK for continuous use

Prop: iFlight iCF 1038 Carbon Fiber DJI Hub 8mm Hole (TE Style blade)
4S (16.4V)
Throttle Volts Amps Watts RPM Thrust(g) Winding Temp (F/C)
25% 16.35 1.17 19 3778 174 82/28
50% 16.27 3.38 55 5861 422 81/27
75% 16.08 7.63 123 7812 757 81/27
100% 15.81 13.94 220 9345 1161 106/41
Comment: OK for continuous use

Motor: DJI E300 (2212/920Kv) - Page 4 of 4

Prop: DJI 9443 Self Locking prop (plastic blades)
3S (12.3V)
Throttle Volts Amps Watts RPM Thrust(g) Winding Temp (F/C)
25% 12.42 0.93 12 3375 78 71/22
50% 12.36 2.05 25 4892 210 72/22
75% 12.25 4.65 57 6661 428 74/23
100% 12.05 9.18 111 8220 701 78/26
Comment: OK for continuous use

Prop: DJI 9443 Self Locking prop (plastic blades)
4S (16.4V)
Throttle Volts Amps Watts RPM Thrust(g) Winding Temp (F/C)
25% 16.43 1.20 20 4202 139 78/26
50% 16.34 2.97 49 6162 357 78/26
75% 16.16 7.07 114 8175 705 83/28
100% 15.88 13.58 216 9596 1034 125/52
Comment: OK for continuous use

Jack
Last edited by jackerbes; Oct 17, 2014 at 10:13 AM.
Oct 17, 2014, 12:07 PM
Registered User
manuel v's Avatar
Jack.

I am extremely surprised by the differences we have in our temperature tests.
Of course the environment is very different.
I'm about 10 feet and maximum elevation at the time of testing of the temperature was 88F. outside in the shade and possibly a 105F.
Had we reached 130-140F days.


Initial temperature. 88 F.
Full throttle, 80-90 watts max.

30 sec = 105 F.
60 sec = 119 F.
90 sec = 128 F
2min = 132 F
3 min = 138 F,
4min = 138.5 F. and the temperature stabilized. 59.2 Celsius.

Completely decelerated and the temperature rises to 147 F. seconds (63.9 Celsius) and then starts to decrease slowly.

If I touch the motor hood with one finger, I can barely hold it for 1/2 second. and it is very hot.


Half throttle.

The temperature was measured at the base of the motor, mounted on the arm of DJI frame.

Initial temperature. 88.3 F.
half throttle, 5.15a, 12.28v, 63 watts. initial

30 sec = 102 F.
60 sec = 118 F.
90 sec = 124.9 F
2min = 131.4 F
3 min = 135 F,
4min = 136.78 F. and the temperature stabilized. 58.2 Celsius.
5 min. stabilized temperature to 135 degrees. 57.2Centigrados.

For a mid-trotle, the temperature is almost the same as all accelerated, possibly those two degrees who missed it was because the battery is low and power used to end was already like 40 watts.
with a larger battery, possibly would rise up to 138.5 F.

Manuel V.
Oct 17, 2014, 06:27 PM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by manuel v
Jack.

I am extremely surprised by the differences we have in our temperature tests.
Of course the environment is very different.
I'm about 10 feet and maximum elevation at the time of testing of the temperature was 88F. outside in the shade and possibly a 105F.
Had we reached 130-140F days.

Initial temperature. 88 F.
Full throttle, 80-90 watts max.

30 sec = 105 F.
60 sec = 119 F.
90 sec = 128 F
2min = 132 F
3 min = 138 F,
4min = 138.5 F. and the temperature stabilized. 59.2 Celsius.

Completely decelerated and the temperature rises to 147 F. seconds (63.9 Celsius) and then starts to decrease slowly.

If I touch the motor hood with one finger, I can barely hold it for 1/2 second. and it is very hot.


Half throttle.

The temperature was measured at the base of the motor, mounted on the arm of DJI frame.

Initial temperature. 88.3 F.
half throttle, 5.15a, 12.28v, 63 watts. initial

30 sec = 102 F.
60 sec = 118 F.
90 sec = 124.9 F
2min = 131.4 F
3 min = 135 F,
4min = 136.78 F. and the temperature stabilized. 58.2 Celsius.
5 min. stabilized temperature to 135 degrees. 57.2Centigrados.

For a mid-trotle, the temperature is almost the same as all accelerated, possibly those two degrees who missed it was because the battery is low and power used to end was already like 40 watts.
with a larger battery, possibly would rise up to 138.5 F.

Manuel V.
I was looking at your thread yesterday and just could not figure that out either.

Were those readings obtained with one of the pastic 9443 DJI props?

I almost wonder if you had a defective motor or maybe the shaft end was binding against the mounting or something. But I'm sure you would have noticed something like that.

This motor was sent to me just for testing and it is in good condition. I popped the housing off and looked it over and am seeing a nice motor of a little better than average quality. It is 12N14P, wound dLRK-Delta, and all in good condition. It has 0.2mm laminaitons, unmarked or ordinary quality bearings in good condition, and little or no flux leakage (won't hold a screw placed on the housing)

As you can see, I ran it up many times on 3S and 4S and the temperatures were always looking normal (sensor against the windings). I got it up to about 140F once or twice and it cooled back down and continued to run fine.

Kind of strange for sure...

Jack
Oct 17, 2014, 07:41 PM
Registered User
manuel v's Avatar
Jack
When I fly my multicopter, when I landed after about 6 minutes in the air, if I can just hold my finger on the hood of any of my motors because they're hot.

My motors behave like yours.
When yours with the stock prop has a 682. Kv
And mine gives me 673.5

But my tests are in full throttle until 4 minutes starting an initial temperature of 88 F. environment

I'll try another motor, as this colder temperature.

What was your initial temperature?

My RPM figure.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...light=2212+920


Manuel V.
Oct 17, 2014, 07:50 PM
Registered User
manuel v's Avatar
I also did a test at half throttle
I hover at just 1 kg of weight between 50 and 55%.
I see that while I have the throttle stick on my radio in half and consumes 63 Watts.
Yours 25Watts and barely reaches 63 watts would reach between 76-77% acceleration.

This tells me that it is not necessary to achieve this obstinacy hover at 50% and then have a very powerful motor,
You just have to adjust the throttle curve more exponential. (- for futaba.)


Manuel V.
Last edited by manuel v; Oct 17, 2014 at 07:58 PM.
Oct 17, 2014, 09:44 PM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by manuel v
Jack
When I fly my multicopter, when I landed after about 6 minutes in the air, if I can just hold my finger on the hood of any of my motors because they're hot.

My motors behave like yours.
When yours with the stock prop has a 682. Kv
And mine gives me 673.5

But my tests are in full throttle until 4 minutes starting an initial temperature of 88 F. environment

I'll try another motor, as this colder temperature.

What was your initial temperature?

My RPM figure.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...light=2212+920


Manuel V.
I don't have a quad to fly, just a motor to test. Is the motor in the open on your quad? Where it get's good cooling air flow?

My basement/shop is about 66F/19C or so now, as you see the temperatures in my tests start at higher temperature it is because it has not cooled completely from the last test.

Tomorrow I am going to put that DJI 9443 prop on it again and let it run for a long time. The 78F/26C I reported for the 100% 3S test was probably not completely stabilized yet. But the 125F/52C on 4S was. So I don't think it will get to even 100F on 3S but we will see.

On your "..6 minutes in the air..." flight how much throttle is that? Continuous full throttle?

Jack
Oct 17, 2014, 10:00 PM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by manuel v
I also did a test at half throttle
I hover at just 1 kg of weight between 50 and 55%.
I see that while I have the throttle stick on my radio in half and consumes 63 Watts.
Yours 25Watts and barely reaches 63 watts would reach between 76-77% acceleration.

This tells me that it is not necessary to achieve this obstinacy hover at 50% and then have a very powerful motor,
You just have to adjust the throttle curve more exponential. (- for futaba.)


Manuel V.
You are getting 63W on the four motors in a hover? Or just one motor? That is not enough power by my experience...

The only quad I have experience with was 956g and it needed about 121W to hover with motors of a similar size. That is in the image and the testing I did in this thread:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=2186758

I would expect to need about 1200-1400g of static thrust in a system that will fly a 1000g quad. That would be about 300-350g per motor in the static test. And that would be somewhere between 50% and 75% throttle and between 25W and 57W by my testing. And I would think these motors would put the same quad in a hover at a very similar power level.

Jack
Oct 17, 2014, 11:07 PM
Registered User
manuel v's Avatar
My motors are mounted on the frame DJI.
I'm practicing and hover and forward flight.
go up and down.
To test temperature, lost screw a little in motor and put a a thermocouple at the base, and attach it to my meter.
Connect an additional ESC, removing the DJI and did the test.
One day fully accelerated with an motor and another day with another accelerated to half the Stick.
The motor just under 63 watts to me get started and 40 when finished.

I think it has a lot to do, the initial temperature and the environment.
But I'm surprised that makes a difference so excessive, so I'll try the engine now starts the winter.

Manuel V.
Oct 18, 2014, 04:30 AM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
Thread OP
"..I'm practicing and hover and forward flight.
go up and down..."

Sounds like my flying style on multis. For me it was like learning to fly all over again. I did almost all of it in my yard, very close to me, and with very slow careful movements. And I am still not much of a multi pilot!

The attached image is of the 3S and 4S test on the E300 that I reported in the first posts in this thread. As you can see, on 4S I throttled back to 80-85% or so when the temp got up over 120F/49C and the temperature started dropping immediately.

But 3S was not even getting warm so I did not run it for very long. But I will give it a good long run today and see what that does.

Jack
Oct 18, 2014, 09:27 AM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
Thread OP
About eight minutes at full throttle with the DJI 9443 prop on 3S showed no heating problems. Average = 96F/36C and only a few degrees of heat rise during pause in the middle of the run.

Jack
Oct 19, 2014, 11:21 AM
Registered User
Something else to consider.
I just installed a set of the " iFlight iCF 9443 Carbon fiber DJI Hub Self Locking". Quite impressed with the props from just a visual inspection.
I immediately noticed I couldn't get the "locked in" hover that I had with the plastic DJI props.
I assume it's because the carbon props are stiffer, giving more response than the plastic props.
I'm sure a little tuning will bring it around.
Oct 19, 2014, 01:29 PM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
Thread OP
That is an interesting comparison. Is it in holding the altitude that you see the difference?

Do you have one of the systems with the altitude hold feature?

You might be right about the stiffness being a factor, that could make the muti respond to smaller power inputs that were not really noticed with the plastic props.

Jack
Jun 13, 2015, 07:27 PM
Radio-Actif
capntripps's Avatar

TBS Discovery w/E300 system overheating?


Jack,

I ran a TBS Discovery (no gimbal) today with a DJI E300 system using RCTimer 10x45 CF propellers in a casual flight around the park. Battery was a 2200mah 3s. After 8 minutes at end of flight the motor bases were hot to the touch, not hot enough to remove my fingers, but darn hot and any hotter I would not be able to keep my fingers on the motor base, the motor bell was just warm. The E300 ESC's were warm, and the battery pack was just warm.

When I flew with Graupner 10x5's the motor base was just warm, the motor bell housing was cool, as were the ESC's, but I got less flight time (about 6 minutes) and the TBS flew sluggish compared to the 10x45's.

The RCTimer CF 10x45's have more surface area than the Graupner 10x5's and seem to fly more responsive than the Graupner 10x5's. My concern is the motor heat, how do I know for certain if I am overloading the motors?

I am thinking switching to a lower KV speed motor since I only intend to fly larger propellers for maximum flight time.

I have read every single post on this topic and from what I gather I should probably switch motor/ESC combinations. Any advice would be very much appreciated. I know this topic must have been done to death by now.

Andy
Jun 13, 2015, 08:28 PM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by capntripps
Jack,

I ran a TBS Discovery (no gimbal) today with a DJI E300 system using RCTimer 10x45 CF propellers in a casual flight around the park. Battery was a 2200mah 3s. After 8 minutes at end of flight the motor bases were hot to the touch, not hot enough to remove my fingers, but darn hot and any hotter I would not be able to keep my fingers on the motor base, the motor bell was just warm. The E300 ESC's were warm, and the battery pack was just warm.
Sounds like you were right near the brink of disaster as far and motor heat, when you can't keep a finger on the baseplate you are over 130F/54C and it is even hotter in the windings. The magnet housing will stay cool through all that and give you no clues as to an impending disaster.

Quote:
When I flew with Graupner 10x5's the motor base was just warm, the motor bell housing was cool, as were the ESC's, but I got less flight time (about 6 minutes) and the TBS flew sluggish compared to the 10x45's.

The RCTimer CF 10x45's have more surface area than the Graupner 10x5's and seem to fly more responsive than the Graupner 10x5's. My concern is the motor heat, how do I know for certain if I am overloading the motors?
Running the motors or one motor up in a static test with a watt meter inline is about the only way to tell for sure what you have going on there. It sounds like the change to the new props brought the load on the motors up to the dangerline, it is that simple. If you can put the Graupners back and things go back to normal that would answer the question.

Quote:
I am thinking switching to a lower KV speed motor since I only intend to fly larger propellers for maximum flight time.

I have read every single post on this topic and from what I gather I should probably switch motor/ESC combinations. Any advice would be very much appreciated. I know this topic must have been done to death by now.

Andy
I don't have either of those props. Were the Graupners this 10 x 5 slow fly?

Graupner SF 10x5 - www.flybrushless.com/prop/view/110

The RC Timer will be very similar to this prop if not the same:

iFlight-RC iCF 10x4.5 - www.flybrushless.com/prop/view/337

Both of those prop have a very similar input at a given RPM so I would think the change would have any great effect.

You have the 2221/920 motors, right? Those are 50 gram motors and they should be able to handle a 3W per gram input power or 150W.

What is your battery? 3S?

Can you send me a link to the Graupner prop? I can look for some test data and with that and the battery voltage spot a possible overload due to prop choice or battery voltage.

Jack


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